2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
So I was sent this conversation by a friend of mine.... This is a very interesting thread that just opened up ... It looks like this is now the new format that generations are asking for. It appears to me that most people are getting sick of the old school mentality as far as magazine reviews and now they want REAL WORLD users to give an opinion. I think manufacturers won’t know what to do if this is the new trend on the decade of the 2020s.
The tables will turn as new generations are now in driver’s seat in many industries and they no longer want to read what is being written by older audiophiles. I have seen this trend occur not only with audio but also car industries where they are sick of reading motortrend magazine, etc. They want to see the guy that owns the Mclaren 720s talk about how fast it is and see him drive the hell out of it at the track. They want HIM to talk about headaches, issues, maintenance, etc and not the guys who write the magazines.
Think about it, Amazon wiped out Toys R Us, Kmart, SEARS, etc, etc. Tons of retail stores are closing which includes: MACYS, JCPenney, LOWES, etc. and we don’t think this massive change is going to impact the way the audio industry rolls? Ok, then i will leave you with this thought: when you go out to a restaurant or you want to buy a product somewhere (whatever that may be), dont you go and read the reviews that ACTUAL users leave? i use amazon CONSTANTLY for everything in my house and i ALWAYS read what actual verified buyers are leaving as far as feedback because i dont care to read WHAT THE HELL a magazine said and i am sure you guys are doing the same thing too?

Mark my words, this is just the beginning of what will happen in this decade.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/would-you-donate-a-dollar-to-have-these-members-review-a-prod...
yyzsantabarbara
5,123 posts
 
Amazon is indispensable to me and what Bezos and his wife created is incredible, especially given the road map they laid out in the 90’s. They executed it incredibly well.

However, there is some corruption behind the reviews we read on Amazon. There were some recent reports of Amazon employees taking money to add reviews.

Do not get me started with YELP.
minorl
1,021 posts
 

When most of the brick and mortar stores are gone, you will begin to see on-line sellers reducing their automatic return policies. 

reviews have their place and purpose.  yes, there is bias among reviewers and certain manufacturers.  Take for example the stereophile (I believe) review of the Audio Research DAC8 a few years ago.  The reviewer either hated Audio Research or was on drugs. Totally incorrect in his assessment and was so savage in the review that bias most certainly must have been there.

Anyway, without reviews, most of us wouldn't know products even existed.  I don't take reviews as gospel. However, the physical description of products, comparisons (A/B) with other products, etc. do help.  but, since it isn't my room, using my associated equipment, it can't possible describe what I would hear in my home.  But, it helps.

Audio shows are the same.  You get to see them, and if people shut up in the rooms long enough, you actually get to hear them.  Unless they are playing finger nail on chalkboard music.

I've read with interest over this long period WC's journey in audio.  I agreed with some assessments and disagreed with others.  That is real and cool. 

Brick and mortar stores going out-of business leaves local people without jobs.  It prevents one from touching, hearing, seeing and trying on products.  It is bad enough that audio stores are few and rare now, and even when you find one, locally, they can't possible carry many pieces in the same categories.

Auto dealers (although they have their ways of legally ripping of people), do carry most models.  But, not their competition. But, you can go from one dealer to another and test drive.  Try to do that with stereo equipment.

Anyway, WC, keep on keeping on.

enjoy

ruraltraumasurgeon's avatar
ruraltraumasurgeon
29 posts
 
I am happy with the ARC reference 750 and ARC 6 preamp, but I am old tube guy...
tjassoc
259 posts
 
I have to agree with minorl. And I’d like to add a few things.
When I began investing in equipment, I spent a LOT of time at my audio retailer. I mean I spent a LOT of time.
I listened in their room, I brought home equipment to try and I purchased based on my own direct experience and my retailer’s guidance after listening to a LOT of equipment playing a lot of music.
My audio dealer introduced me to and educated me in high end audio, and they also introduced me to a lot of very cool, great music. Later, they also introduced me to home theater. It’s unlikely I’d be an audiophile today if not for the assistance, care and education I received from my high end audio retailer - I will forever be indebted to them for some of the best music and culture - thanks guys!
Their high end room was the BEST room I’ve ever heard - and sadly, nothing I’ve ever heard (including my own room) doesn’t come close - by a wide margin. Part of that has to do with the current owner, who has the ability to set up equipment better than I heard anyone else do, again by a wide margin.
I purchased a piece once without first hearing it (not from my audio high end retailer) - and I will NEVER do that again. While the piece was very good, I wanted better and I immediately stepped up to the top grade. Had I listened to it prior to buying, I would have saved myself the time and expense.
Now that I’m very experienced, I know many things from my experience and I also know what I want. Ironically - not everyone wants the same things from their system. I want a system that has the highest fidelity possible to recreate as close to the live performance as possible. Software (the recording) is critical at this level of equipment performance - yet, when everything "clicks" - it’s an unmatched experience.
Whitecamaross describes that he like sweetness in a system - and stated sweetness is (if I understand him correctly) for a system to replay music that was not recorded critically well and still enjoy it - as opposed to another system that exposes the weaknesses of that recording. With the absolute utmost respect, I desire the system that exploits everything - because again, when everything clicks - it’s an unmatched experience. And while I don’t have the equipment whitecamaross has, I’m not that far from it (stating equipment level to clarify things)
Reviews are a person’s opinion. The reviewer’s objective needs to be identified. The types of music the reviewer likes / is intimate with and the quality of the performance and the recording needs to be revealed. The level of the equipment and room acoustics should be included - this is critical! (many people state power cords don’t make a difference because their system can’t identify the difference).
Another issue I have (which may not be common) is the reviewer’s audio system (actually - I feel all audio systems) should be extremely neutral and the item to be reviewed inserted into that system that the reviewer is intimate with and only that one item switched. The performance of the item then needs to be described very well with references and examples to clearly describe aspects of desirable / undesirable performance - to minimize the potential for misunderstanding.
Everyone agrees switching around components for synergy needs to be done - for good system matching. But say - inserting a "warm" cable to compensate for another component’s, say - "hardness" will never result in the highest fidelity system that brings the absolute best out of recordings.
Just my 2 cents - didn’t post this to incite controversy, but to contribute what I like.
Thank you whitecamaross for all your postings - they’re always a good read. I’m also starting with your videos too. Now that I no longer get the time to check out the latest and greatest equipment at my retailer - this allows me to keep up on some things. And the level of equipment you’re evaluating is exactly what interests me.
More to discover