New Old Thiel CS6 Speakers--Too Harsh

Thanks much for your post!

I love CJ amps for their 'holographic' sound, but in my room i am always ending up with harshness.

The last setup that worked great in my room were Infinty Kappa 8's powered by BAT VK 500 with batpak on lows and ZH-270 on highs. Sounded amazing! Nothing can beat those huge cones on the Kappas. They totally pressurize the room. And the ribbon tweeters are nice and airy...

But the Kappa 8's keep shorting out different amps. I will never hook my CJ up to them.

I am sending my BAT VK-500 for full maintenance shortly...once it's back I'll give it a shot.

The Thiels are much clearer and cleaner but yes a passive radiator design means that something is out of phase in the lows...and you can hear it compared to the Kappas. But the Thiels never lose composure no matter how hard you drive them.  But so far they make some of my favorite albums sound horrible if not EQ'ed (anything by peter gabriel and genesis). Very consistent at any volume. 

I have been eqing with a Venu360.  Sadly it redigitizes the signal just before the amplifier.  Any adjustments seem to step all over the spatial qualities of the sound but can tame the harshness.  I realize sadly this is not a solution to the problem.  The more I listen the more it sounds like a ratty band-aid.  

My room is 14x20 but it's a multipurpose space. So my Thiels are 1.5 to 2 feet from the back wall. The speakers can only be setup on a short wall in this room. The Kappa 8's were great for how not deep physically the cabinets are and how little they relied on their cabinets to fill out the bass. And you can easily get them 1-3 feet from the back wall.

Please send more thoughts.

HI All,

When it comes to driving my new old CS6's, a Carver Signature Sunfire Load Invariant Amp (600w) is trouncing my CJ Premier 350.

More bass, greater specificity in imaging, a bit more 'immediate' sounding and the harshness I was experiencing with the CJ amp is mostly gone.

I have to send my BAT VK-500 with BatPak in for servicing. I am hoping that it will best both the aforementioned amps when it comes to the Cs6's. 

I will be trying two Crown Class D XLS1500s in mono this weekend.  Should put out 1500w to really get that volume of air moving that moves the passive radiator. 

Is there a tube-based power amp that one could try to drive the CS6's?

Hi, sorry for the vanishing act - but I suddenly decided instead of downsizing into my townhome I’d sell it and move back to my big house. LOL! So, the Thiels might be coming out again. I’m facing however setting up on a floor plan that is NOT stereo friendly. It’s basically the same as my first place, only the dedicated room is half the size so you have a 20’ ceiling at the entry (stupid).


LOL, I had a friend who had Apogees, and I swear the gear stores loved seeing him walk in. I think the last I saw he’d hooked up some Spectrals, but had a graveyard of Thetas, Pass, McIntosh... Freaking vampires.


Why can you only run the speakers on the long wall? One thing I found at least in my last 2 setups (16 x 27 and dedicated 12 x 19) was they sounded better close together and far, far away from the backing wall. I don’t think I ever got closer than 3’ no matter which way I did it. Listening distance 9-12 feet. Then again, I seem to be in the minority on listening on the long end. My dedicated room they were almost 7’ from the back wall.


I’m wondering if there’s something else in the CJ pairing that’s not right. Because your experience is completely opposite of mine over the decades. Then again, I’ve always dealt with this gear when it was new - we are talking "vintage" on a lot of this. Maybe old amps get cranky or get dementia?


I’m willing to bet once the VK-500 is back to spec you’re going to be ecstatic. Did you say what preamp you’re running? I’d put an awful lot into that. The BAT’s were made for each other. What I can say is that the Thiels are the pickiest speakers I’ve had the pleasure of owning. The final spice was getting the cable correct, which is honestly something I wouldn’t have believed. But a small moving box full of cable says otherwise.


Are you having them upgrade the bat-pak as well? I know they’re on their second generation at this point. Does Victor still work there? I’ve been so out of touch - and BAT seems to have fallen out of favor a bit. But my dealings with BAT were always excellent, very responsive.

BTW, huge Genesis fan, but I'm old AF. Saw them several times, and Gabriel for every tour from his first solo up to So.

brettmcee OP
Is there a tube-based power amp that one could try to drive the CS6’s?

 Only if you can find one with at stable 2ohm transformer output tap that can output 100w from it.😉

Did you find out if the tweeter uses ferro fluid like a said way back, it WILL be your harshness problem if it does
As the ferro fluid will be almost turned to glue by now with age and the tweeter will be pushing **** up hill trying to move against it and giving non linear distortions.

Cheers George

brettmcee

Thank You for the update. I am looking forward to the B.A.T. / Sunfire comparison.  Have fun!

Happy Listening!