Distorded sound with Tidal


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Sorry for the long post (and for English mistakes, I normally speak French) - If anyone can help me with my technical issue it would be very appreciated! But since this community shows an extraordinary level of knowledge, I am taking my chance!  I tried posting my problem on ROON forum with no success.

ISSUE DESCRIPTION. When streaming Tidal on my system, on some tracks I hear some disturbed trebel (let say in the area of 4KHz +/- 1KHz). It is difficult to describe - it reminds me the sound of dirty (dust) needdle playing a record. For example, I hear that crysp on Ella high notes. I also hear it on some cymbals (rides, for example). Sometimes it is more obvious; sometimes it is subtle.

PATTERN. I have not been able to identify a pattern on when it happens. It could be on 16/44, on 24/192, and everything in between. It seems more frequent on MQA (what ever the resolution). Week ends, week days, day time, night time, none seem to have influence (I was thinking power grid pollution)

EQUIPMENT

Tidal HIFI + FLACs on hard drive
NUC I7 (7th) with ROCK/ROON, USB connected to:
IFI micro I-Link USB to S/PDIF converter (24bits/192KHz capable), connected to S/PDIF of:
Audio Alchemy DDP-1 (Preamp and DAC + external power supply), driving A and B:
A: Audio Space AS-3I (tube amp EL-34) integrated amp that drives Reference 3A MM speakers
B: MiniDSP (low pass @ 80Hz) that drives Simaudio W4150 solid state amp that drives DIY subs

POSSIBLE CAUSES
-ROON Issue: Tested Tidal outside ROON (on a laptop) - no improvement
-Faulty Speakers (tweeters). Tested two other sets - no improvement
-Faulty DAC/Preamp - tested with a different DAC (Moon 100D that can only accept 24bits/96Khz) - no improvement
-Faulty amp - tested with a solid state amp - no improvement
-Faulty USB converter - not really tested but streaming directly from a Lumin M1 shown the same problem - no improvement
-Faulty NUC - tested streaming from a laptop - no improvement
-Noisy outlet (AC supply) - tested a few power cords ($100 to $200 each) + connected to different outlets + added power conditioner ($400ish) - SURPRISE! 50% improvement mainly due to using a different outlet in the same room ($2 type of outlet).

  • I also tested streaming directly and from my NUC to a Lumin M1 at my cottage (different power grid, different network, different speakers) - no improvement perceived
  • I tested streaming from my hard drive (tested different quality) connected to the NUC - the result is no issue, no distortion - only distortion in Tidal.
  • I tested streaming from Spotify (highest quality but still a low streaming rate compared to Tidal) - the result is no issue, no distortion
  • LAST TEST: in ROON I decreased Tidal quality from HIFI to the next lower level (forgot the name) - distortion seems to be gone completely or almost (but I am loosing overall sound quality).

HELP
I suspect a mismatch between equipment but I am surprise to hear the same issue with different equipment (Lumin M1) in a different location (my cottage). I also suspect that the internet quality and supporting hardware may be the cause (low speed at the cottage and poor CAT5 in-wall cables and poor switch at home).

Do you have any suggestion for the cause or a test to propose?


explorateur
@c_avila1 I DIY’d my own umbilical cords - experimenting with a half dozen different types of wire. Each had their own sonic signature. 20awg OCC pure solid copper magnet wire worked best for my ears. Currently, using cheap connectors from the local electronics store. In the future, to be replaced by Oyaide.

Grannyring makes umbilical cords in his Acoustic BBQ line. (He mentioned that for some customers, he solders directly to the LPS internals, bypassing the connectors.) I suspect that most boutique cable companies will build them: VH Audio, Audio Sensibility, WyWires, etc. Just like power cords, after-market umbilical cords make a difference.

This is an old thread but I received great help from many members and I would like to document my findings over the last month.

A. I kept contradicting myself when explaining symptoms (which was not helping members to recommend solutions). What seems to work one day was not the day after and vice-versa. The reason for that is that nothing was stable and the problem evolving depending on when I was listening. I have not identified 100% of the pattern but it looks like the following: No issue until 6 pm (week days) followed by serious degradation until 10 pm, then fine again. The pattern is a bit different during week-ends. First conclusion: most likely power grid pollution, may be internal to my house or external (my street, etc,).

B. I was able to narrow down suspects: NUC (and laptops as a substitute to the NUC) - both using switching power supply. I received a Low Noise LPS (ebay, China type but still decent) for the NUC. That was a miracle (keep in mind I am an Electrical Engineer and I am skeptical of many things that sounds to me like snake oil). YMMV but for me LPS was the solution (almost, keep reading) to my problem. What was good before became excellent and what was terrible (at specific hours) became very good sometimes and good at other times (I suspect some degradation remained during the worst moments of the evening but I cannot confirm). I was in love again with my system and started to lesson every night for 3 - 4 hours straight with my spouse.

C. But I wanted more, better... I sold the Audio Alchemy DAC (which is very good by the way, very detailed) and now I have a Lumin D2. I do not really believe in electronic burn-in (I do believe in warm up, which is very different - a subject for another discussion). OK, wrong again (may be, or not… could be related to the time of the day). My wife made me notice how better the Lumin was after a few days. Missing the details the first day the Audio Alchemy was so good with, the Lumin started to be more and more detailed (not as much as the AA), and especially started to expend the image and the overall coherence between the different instruments. But I noticed that part of the degradation was back with the Lumin (which is using an internal switching power supply). For example, last time around 6:30 pm, we started earing the degradation during a specific song. Started good and degraded down to terrible. Played again the same song since the beginning and was terrible. Second conclusion: my system does not seem to like switching power supply, at some time of the day.

D. I ordered an other Ultra Low Noise LPS for the Lumin. Waiting for it (as a note, I know it will most likely void my warranty - so be it). I have great expectation it will solve the issue. BTW, the Lumin is fantastic. If the LPS does not work, I will have a D2 for sale... But I want to keep it so bad (until I upgrade to a T2!).

E. What is next? I need to improve electricity quality feeding the system. Not sure what will be my next move since I do not know the cause of the problem. My intents, in that order: 1). Elimination of all Switching power supplies near or on the same power line as my system; 2) Adding a LPS to both my modem and switch to replace their switching PS (not convinced of the result but it will cost me around $200, so I will try); 3). Add additional filtration to the system, may be something like an isolation transfo that provides balanced power and filtration. I already have some filtration in place but quality could be way better; 4) In my dream, because the amount of work will likely prevent me of doing so, adding a dedicated power line directly from the electric panel - this is what I have done for my cottage and my HT in the basement and I see value; 5) what else, don’t know - may be someone would have a suggestion?

To Steakster,

===========

Out of curiosity, I just played from Tidal:
- Biko (Peter Gabriel)
- Dear Rosemary (Foo Fighters)
- Summertime (Ella & Louis)

On my system, everything sounds fine - even the specific passages that you mention. This is a result of years of cleaning up the power. It was a long and winding road. I completely empathize. When you install the LPS’s, the SQ will start improving

==========

Well, you were right all along. I really believed for a moment that those three tracks were poorly recorded. With the LPS in place they sound just great. Like you said, it seems really be about cleaning up power (at least in my specific case). But I must say it - seriously, my system is fragile/sensitive with respect to power. I am 54, used to be a DJ in night clubs and sound tech touring with live bands and I can still ear the impact of every changes I make related to power… I would like to believe it is only perception/subjective but it is more than that for sure.


Thanks again for your help.

@explorateur Just paying it forward. Over the years, I’ve learned much here on AudiogoN. Better living through better music.
.
This is an old post but I wanted to document my solution for the issue I described 12 months ago.  After multiple failures, small gains but not perfect, I found the problem and solved it once for all.  

It seems that every time I tried to control the volume in the digital domain (ROON, Computer, etc.), as soon as I went lower that 70%-80% (not sure exactly), I started inducing some noise, distortion, artefacts - subtle but real.  I no longer control my volume in the digital domain (fixed volume or 100%) and only control it through an analog preamp.  Problem solved.

I still cannot tell why my system is so sensitive to that issue but the best sound I can get is through bit perfect, no digital attenuation, no DSP in ROON.  That i7 computer driving ROON is now very idle...