Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
128x128jafant
oblgny
Always go to see you here. Hopefully you guys are thawing out and ready for Spring.  Thank You for sharing your introduction to real stereo gear.
We all remember our first time. Have you paid a visit to your local dealer/retailer lately?
Happy Listening!
vair68robert
Thank You for sharing your DIY cable building project. Keep us posted on the finished product and massaging them into your system. Have fun!
Happy Listening!


tomthiel
Thank You for sharing your cable building project as well. Keep us posted on other brands used for comparison. Hope you are well this day and ready for Spring.

Happy Listening!
Hello all! 

I have finally been able to make it home and put in a dedicated listening session, experimenting with tilting my speakers as @tomthiel had suggested and also varying ear height with regards to my listening position.

First off, this experiment started due to the fact I had been experiencing graininess/brightness issues recently.  At first, I thought it was due to switching to MIT Terminator 2 RCA interconnects from my line-stage to the Thiel Bass Equalizer and again from there to my amps.  Then, I thought it could be the onboard DAC in my Bluesound Vault 2, which has been described by some to be on the lean/bright side.  Finally, could it be the addition of the second D240 MKII amp? Now that I'm running a bridged mono configuration, is it the 3.5's showing off their revealing nature even more?  Only when Tom saw the pics of my listening area did he suggest to tilt the speakers back to try and compensate for a listening height that may be too high.

Tracks used for critical listening included:
-  "The Game of Love" by Santana 
-  "Steam" by Peter Gabriel 
-  "Crush" by Dave Mathews Band
-  "Soul Bossa Nova" by Quincy Jones and his Orchestra
-  "Desafinado" by Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto
-  "Midnight Blue" by Kenny Burrell
-  "Don't Know Why" by Norah Jones
-  "Son of a Preacher Man" by Dusty Springfield
All these tracks are in Hi-Res FLAC (Vault library) or MQA (streaming) formats coming from my Bluesound Vault 2 using the onboard DAC.

After listening to the tracks in my default position, I began by tilting each speaker back about 3" using sand bags.  I found that they became quite unstable if I tried to tilt them much further than that.  In listening to the tracks now, there was a noticeable change in sound:  there was a smoother presentation overall, with less glare at the very top.  I wouldn't say it was rolled off or missing, just not as pronounced as before.  However, the more i listened, the more I realized I was missing some of the instrument separation that I had before, not in a bad way, but just different.  The tilted position also made the speakers "disappear" a bit more, but was I losing some of the "presence" of the musical performance?

So, I decided to experiment further:  instead of tilting the speakers, I got a different, lower chair and measured my ear height based off of Tom's recommendations. Now, with my ears about 32" from the floor, I was definitely below the tweeter level.  In this position, I felt instantly familiar with the overall presentation from my speakers...maybe not as smooth as with the tilted position, but the highs were better controlled than I had heard in my original position.  Most importantly, I felt more presence, more involvement here...that I could "see" where instruments, sounds and vocals were coming from. 

What did I learn?  First, Tom knows what he's talking about when it comes to our speakers.  Second, because of my space constraints, I have a suboptimal setup (toed-in, speaker to listener height/distance) that really affects the way the speakers perform.  Lastly, Thiels reputation for being ruthlessly revealing is well warranted...and may not be "solvable" because in trying to tame some brightness, I felt like I lost some presence and detail.  Perhaps I'm not one who enjoys a speaker that "disappears"...maybe what I really enjoy is a reproduction that makes me feel like I hear every instruments' and sections' and singers' position across a stage/studio when I close my eyes.  The Thiels are MORE than capable of doing this.

I am more than satisfied with this chair and the new, lower listening position.  I feel that I've gotten the brightness under enough control, while maintaining the details and presence I didn't realize I loved until I lost some of it.  Maybe I'm not making any sense...but, I am enjoying listening to this system and the music!

Thanks for all your suggestions and for reading...Hope you're all doing well!

Arvin


Arvin - thanks for your detailed report. I would like to add some thoughts because setup is so crucial for performance. It's no secret that Thiels, especially the pre-coax models are tricky devils to optimize. I'll describe Jim's design assumptions, since working toward those ideals, within your own constraints, will result in the closest approach to objective correctness. Anyone's preferences may vary. All considered, I like a more far-field perspective; some like to be on the performance stage, and the room size dictates so much.

The design distance is 10' from speaker to ear (mic) at about 20° off axis - speaker straight ahead yields that angle. That setup takes a pretty big room and/or some sort of absorption at the side wall reflection point. Ear height is assumed at 3' (normal couch / easy chair). The farther afield, the more leniency develops for all geometry. Distance to backing wall is user selectable. I like about 4', which gains greater bass articulation at the expense of less bass amplitude.

Over the  years, I have seen the most grief caused by too-high ear position. 3' is the target, which gets more critical as distance decreases. Closer than about 8' and the relationships really suffer. Note that ear height adjustment works better than speaker tilting, since tilting changes the way the floor bounce works. I suggest getting ear height as close as possible, then tinting so that the tweeter (3' up) fires at your ear, and toeing in to control wall bounce while keeping the speakers firing at 10° to 20° off axis - they will cross behind your head.

All speakers deal with the room puzzle, but Thiel adds the challenges of lobing to the equation.