BEST HARMLESS/SIGNATURELESS SPEAKERS CAPACITORS.

Dear friends: I want and need to clarify that the use of the junk word was not at any moment used as derogatory but only a way to say that those passive devices are useless for the MUSIC reproduction.

Yes, those passive parts are the ones we are accustom to but in reaklity what we are accustom to are not only those devices heavy colorations/distortions but to the intrinsec colorations/distortions of our room/systems especially the audiophiles that are using tube electronics.

Live MUSIC has several characteristics ( that through this thread I posted some of them. ) and a main one has a name: ACCURACY ( please not confuse with analytical. Way diferent.. ).
A score from a comnposer comes with that accuracy characteristic and when that score is played the director of the orchestra ( or whatever. ) wants to interpret the composer " feelings " and during that score play everything must be doing with accuracy starting with the rigth orchestra instruments tone/note.

With out that MUSIC can’t exist as MUSIC but only some kind of sounds. Timing, pitch, tone balance and the like means ACCURACY and this word is the name of that game.

Now we want and like the MUSIC listening in our home systems and for me the very first and the main target in any room/system ( no matters what/price. ) is to reproduce that recorded MUSIC as accurated as we can.
That means to stay nearer to the recording, nearer to what the recording michrophones picked up at its near field position.

For we can try to achieve those targets we need and is a must condition to put at MINIMUM all kind of distortions/colorations, noises generated through our room/systems.

With out that what we have are only some kind of full colored sounds that we like it becauase we are accustomed in that way for several several years.

Of course that if we do not took care about in the past then it’s sure that our room/system is full of " nice " colorations/distortions and when suddenly we change something in our system: cables, electronic devuices, speaker, passive devices and the like that are more accurated those devices will shows what we don’t want to know and this is our " sad " reality.

It’s exactly what happens when we are accustomed to the analog/LP alternative and suddenly we switch to digital in an analog fine tunned room/system.
What happens?: we just don’t like the accurated digital alternative. The same happens when we switch from tubes to SS electronics: we don’t like SS quality level performance because we are not accustomed to accuracy and high resolution room/systems.
I already been there, I passed through both experiences: analog to digital and tubes to SS. I had to learn in deep about and decided where is the true MUSIC and why.

We like those " nice " colorations and everykind of distortions but these is not really MUSIC or what the microphones pick up is only what we like it.

Today what’s what I like. Well first than all I work hard in the last 10+ years to achieve a very high resolution and accurated room/system.

A system that can tell me and let me feel and let my mind generates the true emotions that only true MUSIC can do it.
That’s why I started to look for opportunities to listen live MUSIC seated at nera field position and understand the importance of MUSIC transiients, timing, natural agresiveness or brithness, power and dynamics as tone in what I listen and for reproduce in home those characteristics we only can do it if our room/system has that high resolution and accuracy levels where any kind of colorations is out of question.

Wima, Vishay, Epcos, etc. are extremely high resolution devices with a extremely accuracy too and with no single COLORATION/DISTORTIONS you can detect, at least till I discover if exist those kind of distortions because today my first hand experiences are really new and I’m still learning.

@paulcreed sure you are rigth and agree with you and if you try Vishay or Epcos instead Wima you will listen the same but that is not a guilty/reponsible of those accurated " zero colorations " caps/resistors devices.

Your system is not ready for those devices , we need to make a lot of work before we can be THERE and really appereciate all what I’m enjoying today. It’s a proccess not an excercise of just change a cap for other one. It’s a learning proccess before Wima or Vishay.
That’s why you said:

" They are just as much of a tone control as the boutique caps. ""

with all respect to you I can tell you that those cheap devices are far far away to be a tone control, it’s the other way around. Your system needs the tone control devices you are accustomed to hear. Accuracy is not part of that system yet.

Look, when the COVID-19 " dissapears " any one can be my guest and listen what I’m talking about.

I’m not a hardware lover but a MUSIC one and I need that my room/system can reproduce MUSIC with accuracy.

That’s all about.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @paulcreed  and friends: From where comes that high resolution/accuracy and high quality performance levels of Wima, Vishay, Kemet or Epcos?

True engineering to acomplish the very strict true industry standards.

Please check any datasheet through Vyshay or Wima and the like caps/resistor devices and you can confirm my statement and look at Duelund or Jupiter and the like sites where exist no true datasheets and obviously no single standard to accomplish for because these is not the levl of quality and the levels of engineering you or me are asking for. 

We are asking for just nice colorations, we don't care if that paper/wax/oil is really need it to reproduce MUSIC with ACCURACY and " Zero distortions ".

Common sense. What all of us like has nothing to see/count in what must or should be on the whole passive devices quality performance levels.

Hey !, I already spend thousands of dollars in those junk of caps I know for sure what I'm talking about and common sense says something is and are just wrong with that junk devices.

Please some one of you can prove that the one that's wrong is me not those colored caps. I really appreciated some of you can prove it with facts and where are that engineeering boutique caps that I said and say does not has.

Welcomed, it's in benefit of all of us. Don't be shy or be worry about.

R.

Dear @paulcreed : "" Wima’s dull the sound which is controlling the tone. I found them to sound just what they are cheap compared to boutique caps............ I find the exact opposite of your findings. """


As I said I agree with you and gave you some explanation about.

Please look and with no disrespect to you or any one: we know what is the capacitor function in a crossover or coupling job.

Wima as Vishay or Epcos and Kemet and as I explained through this thread are signatureless devices are straigth devices that " impedes " in no way that the signal pass through in direct, fast and free of distortions. The construction and engineering behind all these caps are very similar as it’s its high quality performance level.

The signal after passed by these caps is just " pristine "/mimic as how was before pass through.
It’s not that way because I say it but other that all the caps sites information exist the gentlemans that already listened my system after those crossover changes where all them had previously the knowledge on how my system performed before those changes ( some of them are music players. ).

I posted: " sad reality " and unfortunatelly it’s that way and you are comfirmed exactly what I said it in the thread.

Believe me: that dull sound is how your system really sounds/performs and this fact is a good notice for you because you have a big land to improve it using those caps/resistors as the tools you need it for those kind of up-grades that will let you arrive to a formidable improvement in your system and listening experiences.

It’s worth to detect where are the problem at each link in the system chain, it’s not an easy task but a whole system job step by step and at the rigth time use those caps/resistors to know that what we did it was in rigth way to really live the MUSIC system sesions. To many true rewards to name it here. We have to lived.

It’s not just a change of " shoes " .

We have to let it go our bore or lazy to make the overall job and please remember the meaning in MUSIC and systems about ACCURACY.

I know that you can tell me: if ACCURACY is that dull sound I don't want it but those tone controls you are accustom to.

Don't be afraid of accuracy, it's the true name of the game. What is what a electronics manufacturer is looking for: between other things accuracy everywhere and the same for a speaker designer or whatever product. The tone controls are after market devices ! ! ! exactly as the fuses and other true snake oil items and all these is because that way corrupted AHEE lessons.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Paul, from where comes that dull kind of sound?, you can be sure it comes from the room/system set up, somewhere in one or more system chain links are not accurated because normally the majority of recordings are not dull ones.

In systemas that I listened with that kind of dull sound performance normally ( not always. ) the main trouble belongs to the overall bass range management and it’s not so easy to fix it but at the end it’s fixed. Both frequency extremes are critical but bass range is more dificult to fix it.

I can’t know where are the problems in your room/system because I’m not there but certainly exist a room/system trouble somewhere.

Wima only let pass with out degrade the signal generated through the system. This kind of caps are signatureless and harmless as no other caps.

Wima or similar caps can’t improve what is wrong, only can tell us that something is wrong. That’s what any well designed item will shows.

The Wima and similar caps design are really simple with out frills down there.

With all respect to all of you makes no sense to blind-trust in Jupiter or Duelund or V-cap instead where belongs the true proved capacitor engineering. Any one can build a colored cap but not any one can build an accurated one.

We can say: " I trust in my ears " ( me too. It’s what all of us do and what that AHEE teached and we all belongs to that AHEE. ) and after my first hand experiences about maybe it’s time for many of you to re-start/set the MUSIC reference ( near field position. ) main characteristics as the home system reproduction ones.

I have a lot of forward work in my speakers crossover caps. Things are that Wima and the like manufacturers have " hundreds " of model caps for very specific use not only 2-3 like the boutique ones where all those caps makes the same but some with silver or Cu or something like that.

I’m in the begin to learn that I can use and need to test several models to evaluate it and to know if can works in crossover or as coupling caps.

I’m already in this road and I feel the necessity to learn about. In the other side down there exist real fun.

R.

I have listened and tested caps for decades. Your comments are starting to irritate even someone as patient as me. It is fine you have a subjective opinion. It is only an opinion based on your ears, likes and music. Saying other caps are “junk”, “snake oil” and all the other demeaning comments you make is completely false and just not reality. Please stop it with your “Only I Know Best” attitude. Countless other designers, modifiers, builders and DIYers with astute hearing Combined with exhaustive testing have all come to a very different conclusion than you. We are not all wrong. Time for you to back off of the rhetoric that has turned into bashing companies that are passionate and quite experienced with making top grade parts.

Not sure what your motivation is, but you have crossed the line of professionally sharing ideas and experiences and now come across as a person with an axe to grid. You do not hold sole ownership of truth on this subject. You have a subjective opinion only.

I find the caps you like marginally acceptable at best. Steal lead outs have a sound and it is not good to many ears. You like it, but many don’t compared to the better built caps with better sounding materials and design. Wima is not junk. You are not a bad person for loving them, but just open your mind to the fact that others hear things very differently.