Esoteric DV-50: Any cdp's Significantly better?

Alex,

Reb 1208 and I have extensive experience with the DV 50. Some of the strengths of the stock unit (that I really like) are as follows:

- It is warm sounding
- Very detailed.
- Lively, energetic and dynamic sound.
- It is musical (primarily due to the warmth) but could be
more musical.
- Bass slam and depth is very good.
- Great pace, rhythm and timing.
-Piano's (one of my greatest tests for a cdp)sound real,
full and natural. More importantly, the timbre is
correct.

Here are the weakenesses that need to be addressed:

- The presentation of the detail is too forward.
Instruments that should be a foot or two behind the
singer (i.e drums, symbols, etc) share the front of
the stage with the singer and other instruments. In other
words, soundstage layering is not good.

- The above is the reason why the player may
sound "artificial" to you.

- I totally agree with Reb 1208 that the bass is over-
kill. Too much slam that dominates the music. Some times
bass is too full and can sound bloated. The bass actually
needs to be leaner, less forward and more detailed.
- Soundstage could be wider and taller.
- Spacing between instruments could be better. The
soundstage is somewhat "congealed" with instruments too
close together.
- More air.
- Very little if any two or three dimensionality.

You've already stated that you were impressed with the stock bass performance of the DV 50 and have now gotten the 3910 to improve upon it (in terms of magnitude). I am not impressed with bass of the DV 50 for the reasons stated above and if the 3910 does the same with even more slam it is not an improvement for me.

Regarding dimensionality, I don't know if any solid state design can provide dimensionality like tubes.

Alex, please explain how your mods address the weaknesses I've listed above. I'm not interested in more detail (unless its in the bass) as the DV 50 will compete with ANY player in terms of detail.

TBG- I've heard the Exemplar 2900 (not your 3910) and I thought it sounded very good but was somewhat bright. It did have air, good spacing, great detail and a wide soundstage. The soundstage was a bit too forward and again bass detail could be better. However, it defintely sounded better than the DV 50. Alex's units (his old SACD 1000 and
3910) sounded better. Jactoy's Modwright Sony 9000ES also
sounded better.

Alex- To explain what I mean by bass detail, I listen to a lot of jazz with upright acoustic bass. I want to hear the bass overtones, notes between notes, fingers as they pluck across the strings, etc. And I want very little if any "overhang" on bass notes unless it occurs naturally in the recording studio.

Quite frankly, I'm scared to invest in a mod of the DV 50 and then find out these problems still exist. Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

AVGURU

AVGURU, you have heard the Exemplar 3910, not the 2900. BTW I also have a Modwright 3910 on order. I plan on using this for HT, and the APL for 2-channel. AVGURU, it's time to spend some $$$$ too buddy. Start buying and enjoying. Shootouts are great fun, but, if ya don't have your fav unit in house, what good is it?

ESOTERIC UX1 REVIEW

To All:

I've had the pleasure of demoing the $13,000 Esoteric UX1 universal player for the last three days. Here are my impressions, first against the DV 50:

In some areas the UX1 is a dramatic improvement over the DV 50. The soundstage is wider and taller, spacing between instruments is improved dramatically, voices sound more natural and bass detail has been greatly improved. These changes are not small. Its a very polished, more high end sound than the DV 50. And its a more relaxed sound as the DV 50 exudes a lot of high energy. Its like the difference between two peole running a 100 meter dash..one short and one tall. The short person (due to shorter legs) has to sweat and work twice as hard to cover the same ground as the tall person, who looks more relaxed while running at the same speed.

Esoteric should be applauded for maintaing a consistent sound through all formats. I've heard universal players where one format sounds exceedingly differnt than another. Not the UX1 (or DV 50 for that matter). The same sound characteristics that I described for redbook above also pply to DVD-A and SACD (both 2 channel and multi-channel).
What I mean is, even though DVD-A and SACD are inherently better sounding mediums than redbook the same improvements described for redbook apply to those formats also.

For those die-hard 2 channel folks who say they have no interest in mulit-channel music the UX1 just may change your mind. I played Norah Jones "Live In New Orleans", Ray Charles "Genious Loves Company", BB KIng and Eric Clapton "Ridin with the King" and Steely Dan's "Everything Must Go". All of these are mulit-channel DVD-A or SACD. All sounded superb with great detail, huge soundstages, plenty of air and a "live" feeling like you are there. In that respect I think DVD-A is better than SACD as I've found it repeatedly expresses more raw energy while SACD seems smoother and more analog. The multi-channel performance of the UX1 is definitely better than the DV 50.

I also found DVD-Video performance to be improved. The picture is brighter, more vivid with slighty deeper colors. The old "whites are whiter, blacks are blacker" adage applies here. I didn't see any large improvements in detail, video noise or artifacts, etc. Not that there were any problems in these areas before (there weren't) but I didn't see any improvments either. All of my tests were conducted through the component video outputs as I do not own a high def-TV. Video performance of these units are not talked about a lot, but I formerly owned an Arcam FMJ 27-A and I can tell you that the Esoteric is right up there with that unit.

Operationally, the unit works perfectly. The remote is easy to use, the disc reading is much slower due to the newer transport, the front panel buttons are responsive, the LED display is not too bright and the build quality is far superior to the DV 50...which was already overbuilt. Finally, this is a beautiful unit in the brushed silver finished.

However, there are some performance areas where I feel the DV 50 is superior. The X01 is not a warm machine. Mind you, its not bright but its not as warm as the DV 50. Its also thin sounding in comparision to the DV 50. Not as full or rich. The reason for this is the soundstage has been pushed back about a foot compared to the DV 50. This is actually a good thing as I've often complained about the DV 50 sounding to forward and having too much detail "in your face" with poor layering. One benefit is I found percussion (symbols, drums, etc)to be further back in the soundstage as they should be. This adds to a more layered soundsatage and more depth in comparison to the DV 50.

Also, since the UX1 is even more detailed than the DV 50 this recessed soundstage helps to soften the effect of having even more detail in your face.

The problem is now instruments sound thinner with less body. Images are now smaller. The presentation is not as full or rich. This is not so much a problem on instrumental jazz pices where the arrangements are sparse and tightly focused. However, on lush arrangements with plenty of strings and horns (i.e classical or sensual ballads) the music loses some of its romanticism and musicality because the music no longer swells up and fills the soundstage...it sort of hangs in the air as a backdrop where you notice it but don't get to hear it in its full splendor and glory. Also, some of the dynamics are now gone and PRAT seems to be slower..probably because the soundstage is not as energized and is more recessed. The UX1 does not drive songs home..it kind of paces itself.

Vocals sound more natural on the UX1 as they are not colored (in warmth) like the DV 50. But again, they are not as full. Piano's are brighter...especially in the upper ranges and the timbre is not as accurate compared with the DV 50. You can definitely get listener fatigue if you listen to recordings with a lot of higher frequency instruments in abundance.

Its very frustrating because on some music this less forward, leaner sound is ok and actually more appealing. The DV 50 soundstage in many cases is "much too busy" and the UX1 resolves this problem by throwing a deeper soundstage and less forward soundstage that allows for better layering and less "upfront" fatiguing detail. However, in the process of doing that dynamics, energy and PRAT are sacrificed. Furthermore, performances can seem somewhat more "detached" and "unemotional". Add to this the fact that the UX1 is voiced brighter than the DV 50 and it creates a situation where some songs sound incredible where others are lacking.

I understand this is a very hard balance to achieve and most mfg's struggle with this. Howevever, for the $8,000 price difference between the two units you would hope that the UX1 brings you a little closer to that ideal balance.

To conclude, don't get me wrong here. The UX1 betters the DV 50 in just about every category (and every hi rez format). It sounds more polished, more relaxed, vocals are more natural, spacing is improved, bass detail is much better, soundstage is wider and taller, etc. But for me the ultimate question becomes is it more musical? The answer is no, primarily due to a lack of dynamics and energy, a brighter sound that can be fatiguing, a recessed soundstage that at times doesn't allow you to feel the emotion and PRAT that is lacking in comparision to the DV 50. The UX1 we used had about 200 hours on it and has been around the review circuit.

Because of these findings I now want to re-review the X01 in my home. My previous review of the X01 (very high) was done at the dealer's.

My search continues. In attendance to this demo were Jactoy and 1MarkR who I'm sure will agree with my comments.
Tomorrow I will talk more about the other units that were demoed, the Audio Aero Capitole DAC and Jactoy's Modwright 9000ES Sony. I will give you a small piece of candy to chew on...the DV 50 as a transport pared with the AA DAC was GLORIUS SOUNDING....

AVGURU

711,

Didn't know you were back in town. Good to see you back on the forum! I've had the UX1 at my home for the past few days and will be taking it back tomorrow. I was going to bring it to your house for a shoot-out with your newly modded 3910 but Alex told me he has it again for a small modification. I guess you'll be recieving it by this weekend or the early part of next week. We'll get together (all of us) as we originally planned.

Regarding spending $$$'s, I'm not eager to take a chance (and potential bath) on a modded player unless I can hear it upfront and know I'll be happy for a long, long time.
I'm not looking to buy a modded player and then flip it after a short period of time. I want to buy a player I can be happy with for 3-5 years. Once I find that player I will be off Audiogon for a long time and just enjoying the music!

I need to hear your new modded 3910 as I felt Jactoy's Sony Modwright 9000ES was superior (i.e more musical)than both your Exemplar 3910 and the APL 3910. An even more attractive option for me (in terms of $'s) is to have Alex mod my DV 50.

I'm hoping to make a business trip to Houston in the next two weeks where I can hear the DV 50 Alex just modded for Jack.

We'll talk soon!

AVGURU

Fab review AVGURU! Just from memory, do you have a feel on how UX-1 is different from X-01? If you consider the moded DV50 keep in mind that at least at this time Alex is disabling the XLR balanced outputs. He is using 2-channel RCA outs only. Multi-channel and video may be disabled as well.