2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine


A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated. 

It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.

It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter  and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency. 

The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?

Cheers!
ledoux1238
^^^
Albert
re: Audiophile Speed Anxiety

My direct drive turntable which I put together many years ago; can be seen on my virtual system and here..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vY1f2RWRWPbMFzxEA

is never at 33.33

It is always above or below. Such is the nature of that turntable's drive system. It will fool your Sutherland Gizmo, and this device will say the speed is good. The cheapest DD turntable, whose system uses a back and forth motion to correct speed, will fool the Sutherland Gizmo into showing correct speed. If passing this test makes one calm, I assume that is a benefit, as this may lead to enjoying the music.
But if it causes anxiety ?

The better La Platine test, is to get to a level of setup where one can turn the motor off for a second, turn it back on, and/or flick the thread as the music plays ....and neither of these activities are detected by the human ear in the music that is playing.... that is the real test.

****************************

La Platine is not a plug and play turntable and depending on one’s system chain resolution, all of the following aspects affect the way the music plays. In no particular order.

1) Room humidity/temperature. The synthetic threads may be less prone to absorbing moisture.

2) Material and diameter of thread.

3) How tight the thread is applies.

4) Position on the Platter. (This for the benefit of the motor) The analogy I repeat, of helping a friend move a couch. Where does one grab ?

5) Thread distance from the pulley to the platter - will affect the torque applied. Think about a sling shot catapult length. Results vary depending on thread type and diameter.

Varying any of the above will affect things.

If your table is at 33.2 or 33.4 and the speed is consistent, that is what is important and music will sound as good as it can get. In both these cases your Sutherland Gizmo will drift left or right. As long as the drift is slow and consistent, and the music sounds wonderful, relax and enjoy it.

Cheers Chris

My direct drive turntable which I put together many years ago; can be seen on my virtual system and here..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vY1f2RWRWPbMFzxEA

is never at 33.33

It is always above or below. Such is the nature of that drive system.

I'm sorry, but why do you think it's a "nature of that drive system" ? 

You can watch @halcro 's  video with his Victor TT-101 with timeline mark.

here: https://youtu.be/rrFzOPaE6bs 
or another one: https://youtu.be/RE52bsIh_ZA 

As you can see it's spot on, this is one of the best Direct Drive motor and it demonstrate absolute speed stability, his unit has been calibrated, maybe you have to do the same with your old Technics?    
In one version of theory, the motor pulley should be as close as possible to the platter so as to minimize (but not eliminate) belt creep.  Belt creep occurs because the tension on the belt (string or other) is always greater on the "pulling" side and lesser on the opposite length of free belt space between motor and platter.  This causes the belt to "creep".  A noncompliant string belt does help to eliminate the problem, I would agree, but not entirely. It seems to me that the very small improvement in transmission of noise to the platter from the motor that is achieved by placing the motor at a greater distance from the platter is not worth the increase in belt creep.  You want the belt to contact the platter diameter as much as possible, which means get the pulley close up to it.  The other aspect of the Verdier that does not appeal to me is its top heaviness with spongy feet.  The motor would tend to pull the whole shebang off perpendicular to the deck.  Besides other problems with that, that construction would also tend to be a cause of speed irregularity, as stylus drag waxes and wanes over the course of an LP..I would put solid inflexible footers on a Verdier, if later models don't already feature such.
Chris, I have a thing for speed. :)

It must have been a video like the one linked by @chakster that got me hooked. I had always assumed that it was plus & minus 33.3, until I saw otherwise. Please allow my indulgence. 

But all kidding aside, with the thread drive as is, there is no drift in playback from strings or piano. I am relaxed. The on/off and plucking tests have all been confirmed. Initially, I was quite skeptical about leaving the thread loose. But having implemented it at your suggestion, it works! On more than one occasion, the platter would not move when I turn on the motor. I looked around only to find that the thread had slipped. Whether it was due to humidity or temperature or both, it showed that the thread was barely hanging on. 

This is, indeed, not a plug 'n play devise.  All the variables you mentioned are integral to the workings of the 'table which I have come to realize and appreciate.

Cool looking SP-10 MK II mod. I have been following a NZ forum with a step by step documentation of a SP10 MKII mod:
https://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/2020/01/04/technics-sp-10mkii-turntable-pt-4-what-weve-learnt-so-far/
A direct drive will definitely be a future 'thing' for me.  BTW, I am contemplating a ET arm, maybe for next year. I'll be seeking advice from you then.

@chakster
 Thanks for the link. I remember using the strobe when my wife came into the room enquiring what I was up to. I explained. And her first reaction was ' Why isn't it dead on? '. The only thing I could come up with was, ' It's the French, they are not German.' It's a terrible stereotype, I know. But I really cannot imagine a German, or Swiss, 'table, with so many variables. 

@lewm You have a good point about contact surface. However, as I understand it, we  want a small  contact surface for the least amount on pull while maintaining consistent speed. This would be the opposite of what you are suggesting?

The top heavy 'table with wobbly bottom analogy is well taken. How do I defeat the suspension? By simply adding solid footers as you suggest? I believe @ct0517 commenting on this issue on one of the other threads. Chris, did I remember correctly? 


Albert
You need to see a $50 vintage dd turntable defeat the Gizmo then you will believe me. Blinking lights don't impress me. What I hear with my ears does. My turntable outperforms my Studer now, and the tape deck would need to be hot rodded. If someone wants blinking lights, nothing beats a tape deck.

The Music Lover uses this turntable to go through their collection, enjoying every minute, never giving it a second thought.
The Audiophile. ..... hmmm......variables.... 

@chakster 
You never answered my question in the other thread.
This one

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/verdier-platine-or-nottingham-analogue-hyperspace/post?postid...

If Chakster provides the answer to us, he will have also explained to Lewm why his post based on theory, does not work.

Cheers