Esoteric DV-50: Any cdp's Significantly better?

Well, the gang just left. Jayctoy, 711smilin, Tgun5 and a couple others (Tgun5's sister and Eric, another local enthusiast) showed up and we listened to Jayctoy's Modwright Sony 9000es, 711smilin's APL Denon 3910, and Tgun5's modded DV50 with the Superclock3.

The system consisted of each player using a TG Audio SLVR power cord, TG Audio HSR High Purity single ended interconnects, CTC Blowtorch preamp, Purist Colossus balanced ICs to Parasound JC-1 monoblocks, TG Audio HSR speaker cables, and Sound Lab Ultimate-1 speakers. Line conditioners/filters used were TG Audio BybeeSucker and Creative Cable Concepts Blue Lightning plugged into Acme Audio cryo'd silver plated AC outlets. Room treatment consists of Sound Lab Sallies and ASC Tube Traps behind the speakers and a tapestry on the wall behind the speakers. Before the shootout we listened a bit through my digital front end, which was removed from the system to accommodate the other players.

The outcome? My answer might sound like a cop out, but I don't think there was a clear consensus. Some of us had similar comments but different preferences. If there was one thing we agreed upon it was that before anyone considers changing from one of these players to another, they might think twice, because they all have their strengths and are all very good. How one works in your system depends on the rest of the gear.

Hats off to all of the friendly folks who came and made for a very fun day for everyone. Thanks to Tom and Steve who both brought excellent wines which were consumed in moderation and enjoyed by all. Lots of laughs and good listening, both serious and casual. We filled out score cards to rank each, but the results were very close.

Perhaps there will be more shootouts, and I look forward to attending and, if people would like, hosting more in the future. What a great way to spend an afternoon, evening, or both with warm new and old acquaintances with a shared passion for music and fine sound in the home.

Brian

I think that this shoot-out at Brians just goes to show that there will NEVER, EVER be a "best sounding" audio component in any category! And if you think that your certain component is the "BEST", or the "TOP-OF-THE HEAP", DREAM ON!!! It may be to you personally, but when it comes to others opinions, you may as well forget it!
There are simply too many different system synergys, personal tastes, and preferences out there for there to ever be a conscensus on any one component, in any given category, sounding BEST, no matter how fancy, expensive, or modified that the component is.
I see and totally agree now, more than ever, that a person MUST audition any given component that they are interested in there OWN system, and in there OWN room, and using their OWN personal taste to decide how good the component sounds.
Asking opinions about which component is good for a particular system, or sounds "best of all" on a forum such as this one is great, but in the end YOU must decide which components sound best to YOU, and in YOUR system, and suit YOUR particular PERSONAL tastes.
One mans HOLY GRAIL or BEST SOUNDING will always be someone elses "sounds pretty good", or "it does sound great, but I've heard better", etc.,etc!
And, on top of all that, even if another person has owned all the components you are interested in, and in the same combinations, odds are that their listening room, sonic perceptions, and personal preferences are much different than yours!
Sorry all you audio enthusiasts and audiophiles out there, but I am be totally truthful and you all know it.

I’d like to thank Brian again for hosting this event. I think everyone will agree on at least one thing - we had a lot of fun doing this. From a personal perspective, I accomplished the two things I had hoped for…1) make new friends, 2) make a good showing with the modified DV-50.

This event solidifies what this hobby is all about. I have a new “to die for” CD list. Also got to listen to two pieces on my “must hear” list, the Blowtorch preamp and Soundlabs. I came away impressed by their strengths although it took awhile to adjust to a different type of presentation than at home…..or was it the wine working? Just kidding Brian, you’ve got a great setup. The organ/choir piece was just incredible!

As far as the shootout, I’m taking the same stance as you, Brian. It is not a copout simply because it is the truth. These players were all real close in overall performance. I don’t think anyone expected this going in. Our scorecards covererd most of the critical aspects of each players performance from pace & timing to depth, balance, inner detail, vocal presence, etc, etc.. I believe we voted on a total of 10 categories, ranking each from 1-5. My scorecard had the players separated by just one point each after totaling the columns.
In the end, the owners of each player, including myself, thought that their player held the edge in the competition. If I’m not mistaken, the other three present chose one of each of the three players as their favorite. It can’t get any closer than that. And no, my sister didn’t choose mine. :-( You may think “of course you are going to pick your own player” . I don’t think this shootout was that simple. It was so close that in the end, it came down to each player’s unique sonic signature. As an owner, this is one of the reasons you bought or kept the player to begin with. As a bystander, you preferred one presentation or another. There just was not a clear winner in all of those categories that you usually use to judge equipment.

Specifically about the DV-50…... I know there is agreement by all that the stock Esoteric will not compete against these modified players. Both the Denon and Sony are at a level that is easy to call “reference”. I want to SINCERELY thank all of the modifiers for their efforts in taking this hobby to the next level.

The good news for Esoteric owners…..The DV-50 has a lot of growth potential! Mine is competing with the best with only $795 in total modifications. It has both the Superclock 3 and power supply modifications done. The great thing is that there is many more mods that can be done if you want to take it to potentially a higher level. I’m contemplating doing this.

As far as the modifications, you can email me if you want specifics. As far as the modifier, it is Doug Jesse at Reference Audio Mods in Warren Michigan. We all know that the parts choice and use has everything to do with the sound. Doug has done an outstanding job in choosing the right components for the Esoteric.

Like I said earlier, my hats off to these guys who are putting a lot of effort into advancing the hobby. You don’t have to sell your CD player to move up in performance. And this includes far less expensive players. I know there are many that have that hesitancy about upgrades. I had the same reservations, but will now highly recommend them.

Thanks to the Chicago group for a great time!

In response to Tvad:

Fair question. Here is how I scored the three: Esoteric DV-50 (46); APL 3910 (47); Modwright 9000ES (48) out a "perfect" score of 55. We used a subjective scale of one being worst, and a five being the best, across 11 categories. If I could imagine better or was just a little bit unsatisfied, I didn't score a five. And no, I don't pretend that all of us were in agreement on the scoring categories or exactly what each category referred to.

Before I elaborate, let me say that this was fun even if exhausting. I heard some top-notch CDs, a couple of which I will obtain in future, through some really great equipment. Three players are plenty to compare in a day. I don't see how you could fairly compare more, as your brain needs a break after a while. We did listen to some SACD tracks as well, but none of them especially rocked my world.

To those that say you have to listen to each component in your own system, I have to ask: Do you ignore all reviews? If not, why not? The reviewer's system will never be an exact duplicate of yours and even if it was, your room will be different. Second question: How, if you are not a reviewer, are you going to get three or four or six top-notch universal players into your system for a lengthy test period? Modders don't loan out their equipment to the world at large. I suppose you could buy two at at time, A/B them and then unload one at a loss here on Audigon.

I appreciate Brian's making this audition, or shoot-out, possible. It was worthwhile, even if not as rigorously controlled as some might argue it should have been. And it was just a nice social event after the scorecards were completed. So don't dismiss the idea of a couple of audiophiles getting together to compare gear. Try it. You might find you like it. It might not change your mind, but it is worthwhile.

After a short warm-up period, we picked six tracks and played about two to three minutes, per track, on each player after first listening to each track. That is, cuts 1-6 were played back-to-back on one unit; then the same tracks were played in the same order on the second unit; then on the third unit. At the end, we took a couple of selections and went directly back and forth between players. Brian's sound meter needed batteries so the volume equalization was done by ear and group consensus, and yes I am sure we were a little off.

What each player did right:

The APL Denon 3910 had the clear edge on detail retrieval, bass, and depth of soundstage. On an early cut, from Brian's Nils Lofgren CD, it was a real treat. Steve made no bones about the fact that *bass* is really important to him. I don't see Steve trading his player for one of the other two. I thought, however, the APL 3910 was just a notch below the Modwright 9000ES on vocals - a little dry. And there was something slightly fatiguing to my ears towards the high end in the APL unit. Sorry I can't pin it down better than that, but by a slight margin I preferred the Modwright unit, even though it clearly wasn't the "best" in each category.

The Modwright scored high on overall "musicality" and didn't fall too far in any other category. It's bass could be better, tighter, but it's satisfying. The Modwright wasn't offensive in any category, had a nice soundstage, good midrange, treble, vocals. One other person thought the Modwright was a tad warm. I liked the unit on female voices. I thought there was just a little less detail than on APL 3910, but not much. Very enjoyable, very easy to listen to.

The interesting player, to me, was the Esoteric DV-50. It was neutral, as compared to the other two players, in that it didn't have big plusses or minuses that were easy to identify. It was a solid performer but left me with the sense that it was just a bit damped sounding as compared to the other two units. By that I mean it sounded just a little less "in the room" and vibrant. Tom thought the unit sounded more exciting in his home system, so I don't think I am off in this regard. The Esoteric unit had good rhythm and pace, good bass, and was right behind the other units in the other categories. Bon commented that, compared to stock DV-50 units, Tom's modified unit had a large soundstage that didn't collapse. I would agree.

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In the weeks leading up to this listening session, there was an incredible amount of vitriol expressed in this thread. That's unfortunate. I had never met Bon, Steve, or Tom and his sister before yesterday. They are all into music and very gracious. No one seized control of the event or demanded that everyone vote a certain way. Brian lent some discipline to the exercise, but that's about it. Steve ruffled some feathers coming into this. But after meeting him in person, I don't have any problem with him. I think he's a little like the Rodney Dangerfield of audio in that he is very vocal, and I can see how he could set some up-tight audiophiles on edge. But his APL 3910 is really good and I don't believe that he is into this for anything other than his own enjoyment in the privacy of his home. Steve really likes music and it's not more complicated than that. And the rest of us of enjoyed the music as well!

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That's how I scored it, and why I scored it the way I did. Brian has laid out the equipment that was used; on a different day, with different cords/interconnects/speakers/amps -- sure, everything would have sounded a little different.

Thanks again to Brian, who donated his time and made his excellent system available. And thank you Steve, Bon, and Tom for making the effort and sharing your excellent gear for an afternoon.

- Eric