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Esoteric DV-50: Any cdp's Significantly better?

Is there are anyone out there who has compared the Esoteric DV-50 to a number of dedicated red book only players (or other universal's) and found one that is SIGNIFICANTLY better?

I stress significantly because in my humble opinion the redbook playback (if comparison unit is just a cd cd player only )must be significantly better to justify losing DVD-A, SACD and DVD-Video capability.

I keep hearing there are better one box solutions and being a die hard 2 channel fan I would sell my DV-50 if I found a player in the same price range that sounds significantly better. But every time I do an AB comparision to other well respected units the DV-50 has slayed each and every one.

So far, it has eaten the lunch of the Classe CDP-10, Ayre CX-7, Linn Ikemi, Cairn Fog Vers. 2, Cary 306/300, Arcam DV 27A and CD 33T, Myryad CD 600, etc. It even betters a Sony SCD 777ES/MF Tri-Vista 21 transport/dac combo that I previously owned. I'm only comparing the DV-50 to single box cd or universal players, but I just wanted to mention the Sony/MF combo. I'm sure there are some dac/transport combo's that will handily beat the DV 50.

Some may say that the DV 50 should beat all the above because the of price point ($5,500 vs. average price of $3,000 for the above players). But I disagree since conventional wisdom says that stand alone players (especially with the pedigree of those mentioned above) should produce better redbook than a universal player trying to be a jack of all trades. Only the DV 27A does video plus audio. By the way, I was very impressed with the 27A as just a cd player. Of all the above I would say the Ayre was the best.

Next on my list is the Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP and the Resolution Audio Opus 21. However, I must tell you I am really impressed with the DV 50 and all the great reviews are absolutely true. I've noticed that many people who are using it or comparing to other players are using the RCA analog outs instead of the balanced outs. There is a significant improvement in sound if you use the balanced outs and I'm only interested in hearing comments from people who have compared it against other players using the balanced outs on the DV-50.

My system components are as follows:

B&W N803's speakers & HTM-1 center
Cary Cinema 5 (5 x 200) amp
Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro
Esoteric DV 50
Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker wire
Nirvana SX balanced interconnects from DV-50 to Anthem
Acoustic Zen Matrix reference II interconnects from D1 to Cary
No after market power cords or isolation equipment

My system sounds great! Those who comment please make sure to specify what specific improvements you heard over the DV 50 and what cdp were you comparing it against.

AVGURU
avguru
nealhood
199 posts
 
With the exception of a few slurs from the pig pen, the comments from the shootout have been entertaining and rewarding. I too would have preferred a blind test but, I do like the 10 category 5 point scorecard approach. I hope to be seeing more of these shootouts in the future. Even hope to participate is some.

I should also mention that successful entrepreneurs always exhude plenty of confidence in their product. It's expected. Here Alex deserves a complement. I certainly hope his enthusiasm, confidence and colorful opinions in his own products and handiwork never wans. And, the same goes for other vendors, modifiers, etc., out there. It is this enthusiasm that drives them for higher goals. I just wish the Ram and Modwright fellows would also chime in from time to time. Shill and hype keep the audio business thriving so for goodness sakes let's not loose it.

I would also encourage vendors and modifiers, and all for that matter, to disrespect any slurring and invective behavior by merely not responding or disregarding the post(s). To respond is like getting in a pig pen with pigs. Things will just get nasty and dirty and the pigs - well they don't care.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
musicfirst
40 posts
 
OK, I guess my efforts to focus on the music went for not...

However, we all have to thank Audio Girl for tonights object lesson:

"DO NOT PUT ALL YOUR FAITH IN REVIEWS!"

Unfortunately, the same must be said for shootouts, and the axiom holds even more truth for those well-meaning endeavours. #;)>

A digression if I might:

In my opinion, the hallmarks of a good audio review have always included the following elements:

1) A known baseline of comparison (reference system/partnering components and software

2) An accurate description of the component's sonic attributes, preferably in more than one system or at least with different ancilliary components. Ideally (although rarely) compared against said reference/baseline components.

3) Devoid of adjectives such as as or 'best' or 'ultimate' or when they are used, they are used in the context of elements 1) and 2)and occasionally in the context of the reviewers own musical priorities (some of you may remember the "golden years" of TAS in the early 90s when the magazine regularly published articles featuring one of their reviewers system(s), listening room(s) and listening biases)

Now back to our regularly scheduled program:

Shootouts introduce so many additional variables into the 'reviewing' equation that drawing meaningful conclusions is virtually, if not completely impossible.

Indeed, in this most recent shootout, the participants themselves are finding it hard to find meaningful differences between source components that have as different a pedigree as Dobermans and Chihuahuas. Each unit had a different transport, DAC chipsets, Power supplies, and analog output stages and yet they 'sounded more similar than different'.

Personally, I find it very hard to believe. Perhaps there was, as some have suggested, an overriding characteristic in the system that negated or minimized the differences that, based on my (admittedly extrapolated) experience, almost certainly existed.

Where does the excercise leave us?? Yet again, the quest to find a foolproof method of auditioning by proxy reaches its ultimate, and preordained conclusion.

Say Good Night Gracie....
carmantom
17 posts
 
I have followed this thread for quite some time now. I was led here as a result of being a DV-50 owner. I wanted to research things on Agon about my CDP that other owners had experienced. As I continued to follow, I realized there might be something even better out there.
After input from many people I have come to respect in their opinions I decided to call Alex. After a couple of chats with him, it was easy to understand I was talking to someone who was several levels higher than most in know the technology of audio. I even discussed the possibilty of modding my DV-50. Once again the more I discussed this with Alex it seemed clearer to me that APL 3910 would be a superior machine.
I do not claim to have the "audiophile experience" that many have here. Nor can I use the fancy language that so many subscibe to.. I have however been involved with music for over 40 years as a musician and singer.
It is only now in my 50s that I have made a decision to build and buy the 2 channel system of my dreams. I have only been working on this for a couple of years now and bought and sold tens of thousands of equipment.
Sorry for the long-winded preface but these are my observations of my DV-50 vs. the APL 3910
The DV-50 wasn't even close.
It was as if a blanket was lifted off the soundstage. I think this means the APL was much more transpaent. I listen often to female vocals. Natalie Merchant, Amanda Mcbroom, and many more were now performing for me live. The space where the notes end and the space starts were nothing less than breathtaking. Each pause between notes were as meant to be, as important as the notes. I think you guys call this blackness. The bloat in the bass I found in the Esoteric was gone in the APL 3910. The pace and speed of the 3910 was lively and body involving. I think that is referred to as "musicality" . there was a sterility to the DV-50 I could never understand. Almost like a sound built in a lab.
The odd thing of all of this is that up until I received my APL 3910 there was not a finer cd player in my book than the DV-50. It did all the things right as far as I knew.
My purchase of the DV-50 was the best I had ever heard. That made it the best as far as I was concerned, until I heard the APL 3910.
I guess the real question is how many things are out there that might be better, and it is me that don't know it, because I haven't heard it yet.
The question is , "Is it enough to know to ourselves that our unit is great sounding to our ears in our own home?"
It's quite probable that we are all right, given different systems,ears,musical tastes and budgets.

Esoteric DV-50: Any cdp's Significantly better?
To me YES! The APL 3910
Tom
ehfm
13 posts
 
There were meaningful differences in this listenting session between each of the three players, I can assure you of that.

It was easiest to compare the APL unit against the Modwright because they each excel in different areas. The DV-50 sort of trailed behind, or was in between the sonic strengths and weaknesses of the other two units.

Alex, I like your sense of humor. Maybe I can speak with you or meet you sometime. Your unit excelled in certain respects.

BTW - we didn't all agree to agree. I've stated my preference and I'm sticking to it. I respectfully disagree with Tom. The other units were not universally "warmer" -- certainly not the APL. And if the Sony unit was "warmer" it was just a tad.

As far as conditions, the DV-50 had the longest warm up time of any unit; Steve walked in and just plugged his unit in and was ready to go. Bon arrived later.

Brian asked ahead of time if anyone needed a balanced setup. I know that Tom thinks the DV-50 would have done better running balanced interconnects, but oh well.

Let me put it another way: If someone said here is a check for $7000, you can purchase just one of these players and if money is left over you must return it, I would pick the Modwright 9000ES.

As Tom stated, he came to the audition prepared to purchase another player if his unit was blown away in his opinion. I thought similarly -- before spending my money I would like to compare. So, to me, the admittedly short afternoon had value.

I admit, my ears may be leaden, take what I say with a teaspoon of salt. But I don't own any of these modified players and I am not beholden to their owners or the people that modified them.

If the EMM gear had shown up, or the Kern 777ES, and had either wiped the floor with the other units, I would say so. Last Saturday, I found the Modwright unit to be the most enjoyable unit in the room.

- Eric
daltonlanny
301 posts
 
Carmantom and others:
Just a reminder, the Esoteric DV-50 used in the shoot-out at Mr.Walshes was NOT a stock unit. It had a few mods from Reference Audio Mods. So it is not fair to compare a stock DV-50 to it.
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