More Power or use subwoofer to boost bass for music

Posted by Erik Squires in this thread:

" Jesus, the 4 sub cult is strong here. "

" The cult: Your problem is you have 1/3 the number of speakers you need!! You must add 4 more, bring it up to six!!! "

" What I have a problem with is the cult that they are the one thing that should be discussed when a poster asks for help with a little more bass. "

" Are any of you listening to yourselves?? Really?? "

" Hahahha. Cult. "

" The swarm was an interesting idea which is promoted by fetishists whose motives and honesty I question. "

" To hear the fanatics tell it, no one has even heard bass before them, and only they can fix it. Also, only they know about room acoustics. It’s magic. Ignore all the previous work that has gone before, because it’s bunk before the swarm. "

" You have convinced me of your intension$$$$$$$$$$$$. "

" People can ask about FM tuners and some one will jump in to recommend the swarm as a fix. "

" It’s not the technology, it is the cult and those who push it. "

Erik, I really am surprised to see you engage in what looks to me like name-calling, straw man arguments, mocking, innuendo, and hyperbole... though I must admit the one about FM tuners was kinda funny.

Maybe there is a different way for you to perceive people who advocate a technology which you concede has merit? Maybe they are not enemies, but fellow audiophiles who are sometimes overly enthusiastic about something?

Nobody here is taking offense and/or accusing you of cultish behavior because you consistently advocate for room treatments, another technology which has merit. That would be out of place, wouldn’t it?

Hopefully we can get to the point where we can disagree without being disagreeable.

Duke

lemonhaze62 posts04-24-2020 4:58am

which in some cases is clearly wrong.

I took a paragraph to explain what you did in a chapter.

I'm getting better.  or am I? LOL

But I like "Lemon Haze", the Haze brothers, THC Titans for sure.


I'm with Eric in a lot of this. Squat, grunt ,and crap out another sub/unit, anywhere works!!  It my work but sure muddies the waters for me..

It may improve the SQ of that system, but I question where that system was before swarm/DBA.  

I can honestly say, my old way is better, not by a small margin either.
Less distortion, and far more directed. I don't want BASS everywhere, I want it at the listening position(S) not everywhere in the house and the room for that matter..Control that sh#t.. get rid of it, don't make it..

Have any of you measured the bass distortion with these swarm rich environment. It's gotta be off the chart, unless it's all digital. What's the fun in that, anyone can do that. There is a trick or two though., and NO digital correction.

I have 6 units, usually 2 bass columns and one or two sub units, if at all. Sometimes when the kids are over, I'll flip off the columns and used the 4 lowriders, KID stuff, BIG BOOM, in the ROOM..local PD has been here to give it a listen..LOL, they all like it too, bunch of kids, too from what I see.

Regards

The question of the day which I believe George came close to asking you is what system was driving the 804’s when you were listening to them in the store? Also did you ask them to make sure the subwoofer was off when they demo’d the speaker’s? A lot of advise offered and some were excellent advice but start at the beginning of why you bought the speakers in the first place and what was driving them. You may be shocked on what you find out especially if you bought them from Best Buy Magnolia. Some of the sales force is not the best when it comes to operating their demo systems (Like turning off the subwoofer while the speakers are being demo’d. Just a thought.

Atmasphere:”But a DBA simply does it better, that’s all. You do the DBA first, **then** the bass traps (if needed), since the DBA is far more effective at sorting out bass problems.”


Hello atmasphere,

     Based on my experience using the Audio Kinesis Debra 4-sub DBA for the past 5years, I believe your advise is exactly correct. I didn’t plan on buying the DBA first and then add bass traps if needed, I just happened to inadvertently follow the advice you’d give 5 years later. I used my 4-sub DBA for abut 4 years with absolutely no room treatments except wall to wall carpeting. I currently use it in a fully GIK treated room per their suggested reasonably expensive room treatment plan following a free room analysis.      Their plan called for 2 of their fairly large TriTrap bass traps stacked in all 4 corners of my room, four 2’x2’x 5.5” thick bass trap wall panels. GIK’s plan also called for about sixteen 4’x2’ acoustic wall panels installed that are a combination of strategically placed absorption and diffusion panels.
     My main focus for having a professional room analysis done was to determine whether room treatments could make even further incremental improvements to my system’s midrange, treble and imaging quality. I was very concerned, however, with GIK’s suggestion of fairly extensive bass traps in my room. The bass quality in my room with the DBA in use was already, at that time, what I considered near state of the art without a single bass trap. I definitely wanted to avoid compromising my system’s excellent bass quality by deploying bass traps. After receiving assurances from GIK and A K’s Duke Lejeune that was traps would not negatively effect the DBA’s bass quality, l decided to include them all in my room treatment install.
     They were correct, I’ve noticed no negative effects in The DBA’s bass quality with a full complement of acoustic room treatments, including bass traps. I have noticed significant improvements in my system’s overall clarity, articulation and imaging, mainly in the midrange and treble range, I believe the bass traps helped extend this increase in overall clarity and detail down into the bass region but it’s difficult to claim with any certainty, since the bass was already very clear and detailed prior to adding the bass traps.      I can state with certainty that the added bass traps have had no negative effects on the DBA’s bass quality in my room. I actually think your previous comment, I believe I read on another thread, perfectly sums up my opinion on the DBA concept in actual application: “The DBA is an elegant bass solution”. Well stated and true.

Tim

I have had very good results with 2 REL T9i subs (that’s 9" plus passive radiators). I use the high level speaker outs and let REL’s internals do their magic. (On movies the REL "listens" to the Sub LFE output, but it’s not stereo.)
Very nice lower bass that enhances mid-range imaging. Flat to <25hz with few nodes as I roam about with my sound level meter, or just my ears. I use the old Stereo Review Test Record for node checking, then music.
Chest thumping impact on movies, but it’s the stereo listening that is really enhanced.
I followed the REL instructions for setup, which were unlike any technique I had used before. Then it’s just dialing in levels.
(Parasound A51, Dynaudio floorstanders + surounds. 18X35 room. I also have a window wall. Wood floors, area rugs and some minor wall treatments.)
Trying to EQ flat bass below 50hz on those B&W will drive them into directionality, if not distortion. Letting the REL’s do their internal crossover reduces overdriving the main speakers and they will be happier.
I drive 85dB as reference, without listener fatigue (the true measure of distortion(s)). That’s way too loud for an apartment.
Little subs, easy placement. Smaller REL’s in a small room would probably work well, too.
I have never liked big subs for stereo listening, although I have spent time with HSU and SVS. Great for "I have a SUB!" display to visitors but marginal for pure stereo. (Also had a Hartley 36" for fun.)