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2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated. 

It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.

It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter  and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency. 

The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?

Cheers!
ledoux1238
ledoux1238 OP
280 posts
 
While I have been experimenting with the stock motor / thread drive , I decided to try something else. For the last 2 1/2 weeks, I switched out the stock motor with a Jasmine ( high torque?) motor and Origin Live belt. The behavior of the platter to this belt drive obviously is quite different. Platter starts and stops much faster, it’s interaction with the motor much more immediate. My initial listening impression was a more stable bass image within the soundstage. Not a dramatic difference but different enough. I deicided to keep the belt drive for two weeks. 
Three days ago I switched back again to the thread drive / stock motor. What I assumed was an improvement on the bass front with the belt drive, turned out not so dramatic. In addition, with the return of  the thread drive, the air around instruments and the sense of the venue were all that much more palpable, that much more ‘real’. While I still don’t quite understand the workings of the thread drive and braking, I can attest that it sounds better than after market belt drive.
I still believe a thread drive with a servo motor that monitors speed stability, e.g. SOTA and Roadrunner, may  be worth investigating down the road. 

A final thought on light strobe. I feel that it is a  measuring tool, like the use of a ruler for  distances, or a Fozameter for sound separation. It’s objective!  Now Lederman of SoundSmith prefers cartridges with a left / right channel differential. That’s subjective. I have no argument with someone’s listening preferences, especially when the the analog sound produced is comparable to reel- to reel.  But we ought to assume that speed stability is one of the criteria for achieving such a sound quality. If that is not the case, that speed stability doesn’t matter,  I would still like to the what the measurable
deviations were. 
xdr
3 posts
 
My turntable is a JC Verdier Nouvelle Platine, the one without the magnetic bearing, but with the same platter and motor. I have just upgraded it with the Sota Eclypse combo,and an OL belt. Speed accuracy is better (between 33,332 and 33,336) but W&F Less precise (0,08 instead of 0,06 %) I used the Analog Magik to have the figures. The issue with the motor of the Verdier is simple,you are not able to set with precision the speed. Musical results are better with The Eclipse combo.
lewm
13,030 posts
 
I must admit, today is the first time I carefully read the letter from Verdier in which he explains about the braking effect at the spindle. That is an accepted method to smooth out or drown the braking effect due to stylus drag and probably does go a ways toward stabilizing speed.  Other and more "vintage" turntables did the same, including grease-bearing versions of the Garrard 301.  Verdier mentions the TD124; I was not aware that it too incorporates a brake.  Setting the brake just right is important to get the most out of it, I would imagine.  Not having owned a Verdier, I have no idea what the steel ball does; it sounds like it adds to or is integral to the mechanism of the brake.
topoxforddoc's avatar
topoxforddoc
353 posts
 
I've been using a Platine for over 15 years now and cannot see myself changing it. I have a GT Audio battery PSU running into a standard motor housing (with a small modification to allow a Lemo cable to power the motor) and the thread drive. The Battery PSU is excellent and drops the noise floor down even further. I briefly tried a Teres Verus rim drove out of curiosity, but went back very quickly to the thread and standard motor.
ledoux1238 OP
280 posts
 
@xdr A few questions:
1. Were you using the thread drive before?
2. Will the motor spindle on the SOTA Eclipse accommodate a thread drive? I believe the reduction in W&F reading is due to the belt acting on the platter.
3. Have you tried a tape drive offered by Galibier, say?
4. Does the motor come with its own housing or do you have to build one? I meant to write to SOTA, but never got around to it.
5. What arm and cartridge are you using?
6. Would you say the sonic improvements were across the board and immediately noticeable?

 @lewm Mr Verdier did indeed mention the braking as an integral part of his turntable. I assume for both La Platine and Novelle platine. And I assume the braking is achieved through the rubbing action of the oil in the spindle / shaft assembly, the viscosity of oil. Given that the Thoren was his inspiration, for me this is where it gets confusing. The Thoren is an idler drive table. Presumably the braking action should work on any drive system, idler,  belt,  thread...etc.  However,   @c0517 seems to indicate that it is a thread drive only proposition? Or does it work best on thread drive?  And he doesn’t even use the oil, so what causes the braking? It’s seems to me a bit of weird science! 

I would assume that adding oil to the spindle is the key. It is a lubricant. But with the magnetic decoupling of  the platter from the plinth, it also produces the necessary friction for the braking action. 
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