Classe CAM 350 monoblock vs Classe CAM-400 or Bryston 4B3

@ Mike_in_NC

It has been frustrating trying to get anything done.  I have a local dealer who sells Magnepan, Bryston and McIntosh. I would love to listen to both Bryston 4B3 and McIntosh (MC312 or MC462) drive my MG-3.7i speakers but after maybe 6 calls yesterday he called back this morning to say he was open for someone else but not for me.

 He didn’t sell me the $7,500 Magnepan speakers either; he made a mess out of that as well.

 I have no education in culinary arts, but I have had family who made a grand living as professional taste testers.  Fact is I can taste things in food many others can not. In the same way I can hear nuances in music some other folks may not notice. Exactly what you recommend is exactly what I would prefer.  Listen and make up your own mind and Lord knows I would have an opinion.

 You are the second individual who is not too impressed with the Magtech, I don’t have an opinion but I respect yours. I know Wendell loved the old Bryston and the Bryston 4B3 is much better than what the old Bryston 4B stuff. I think I should place some credence on Wendell’s opinions?

 I had a deal with a Bryston that somehow fell through?  If that deal can be resurrected a used Bryston 4B3 would could me almost $2,000 less than a new Sanders.

 There are still a few Classè amps on Audiogon; a pair of CA-M350 mono-blocks, and pair of newer CA-M400 mono-blocks but they were new in 2007. I am temped. I know what they sound like but I have issues with their age, location and Classé’s service in the future.

 Road blocks at every turn, after all the drama somehow, Lord willing, this will all work out for the best.

timothywright OP
The Parasound Halo A21+ is rated 500 wpc 4Ω (which I like) costs $2995, however THD is rated <.1% which does not impress me. The amp I am replacing has THD <0.005%

That’s because John Curl as does Nelson Pass etc etc most of the gurus, don’t believe in tones of feedback (and use local instead of global feedback) to get "reasonable" THD figures, where the amp that has .005% obviously does. I hope you know feedback if not used sparingly is detrimental to sound and can make an amp sound sterile.

Stereophile A21+: The A 21+’s distortion was predominantly the subjectively innocuous second harmonic, the second-order difference product at 1kHz lay at a very low –86dB (0.005%), and higher-order intermodulation products were even lower in level.
https://www.stereophile.com/images/220Para21fig5.jpg
https://www.stereophile.com/images/220Para21fig4.jpg

Cheers George

Have A Bryston 4B that I bought used 27 years ago, driving peripheral speakers. never a problem. Have a newer 4B SST driving Vandersteen 3A sigs. I messed up a binding post on the 4B SST and Bryston fixed it under warranty with great communication and quick turnaround. Both Brystons are being driven by a DeHavilland Ultraverve. I’m happy with the sound produced by this combination. Both Brystons get a little warm (temp) but not enough to be of concern to me. 

A few comments.

@psnyder149 found the Classé CA 2300 fan inaudible. I agree that it's a fabulous-sounding amp; in fact, I was about to buy one. But in my audio room, when I was listening to string quartets, the fan became audible during quiet passages. I'd urge caution in this respect for prospective buyers. Most listeners don't mind the fan, but some of us do.

@georgehifi points out that amps that use reduced feedback might have "high" THD, around 0.1%. I agree with George that that amount of THD can be inconsequential. It's difficult to hear, and I would not rule out an otherwise well-regarded amp for that reason. THD, especially 2nd and 3rd harmonics, is far less objectionable than IMD.

On Classé repairs of older equipment, I urge caution again, and I'd ask Classé how repairs might be handled for a specific model. The last information I saw from Classé (during resurrection from the B&W closing) was that older products would be handled by B&W but that parts availability might be problematic. So, wise to check before buying.

And @timothywrite, I sympathize with the difficulty of getting anything done these days. Looking at Audio Advisor, I see Bryston again has raised prices, with the 4B3 MSRP going from US $5995 to $6795 (though currently discounted to $6115). That would be one way to get a home audition, but boy, Bryston sure has become pricey!

@mike_in_nc 
You are correct that for 1-2 years, the Classe repairs were being handled by B&W and quality was definitely suspect but over the last year or so many of the original technicians from Montreal have been re-hired.  Last year at Axpona (April 2019), I had the opportunity to speak with Dave Nauber (General Manager of Classe) and he told me that this was exactly the plan that would be taking place over 2019 and it appears that the plan has been successfully executed.  All of the new equipment is now being manufactured in a SOTA factory in northern Japan.

Classe is now back up and operating as well as shipping new products.  I actually listened to a new Delta Pre with Delta Stereo in February that had been delivered in January.  These products are extensions from the CP-800 pre-amp (which was the design basis for the Sigma SSP I recommended) and the CA 2300/ CAM 600.  These new and improved versions are priced at nearly 2x their predecessors.  They sound fantastic but I have not had the opportunity to listen back to back with the predecessors so I can't say degree to which they are better.  The amps are biased much more towards class A operation (I think 35wpc before crossing into class A/B.  Even so, these units run very cool compared to other designs.  

Last month, I was on the phone with one of the technicians that I remember from earlier days as I was trying to purchase a new shipping box for a Classe Sigma Amp 5 that I am going to be selling.  Unfortunately, they were not able to supply me with one as this product has been discontinued but he did confirm that they will service it as well as the 3 other Classe products that I own.

The market seems to be taking notice of this situation as many used Classe prices have been drifting upwards.  There is an exception to this:  the Sigma Amp 2 and Amp 5 lines.  This is because Listen Up in Colorado bought up all of Classe's remaining inventory and has been selling these at less than 50% original list.  I own an Amp 5 and used it for nearly 5 years with my SSP.  This is a very good class D 5 channel amp with 2 channels fully balanced, but the sound quality of the CA and CAM versions is significantly better IMHO.  I say this at my own loss because I would love to sell the AMP5 and it will not be worth nearly as much as I would like. 

Regarding the fan noise, in my listening room, the fan noise from my plasma TV is actually louder than from the 2300.  This could be a function of layout, proximity to hard reflective surfaces vs. absorptive, etc.   So I can only say that in my room the 2300 is not audible over ambient levels except at startup as noted before.  I live near a highway in the Chicago suburbs so my ambient noise might be greater than yours therefore potentially covering up fan noise that might otherwise be audible.