Are manufacturer AC cables good enough?

Glubson is on roll today. Unfortunately for the rest of us. 😬 Talk to the hand! 🖐

geoffkait

Noone said blind tests are irrelevant. You’re putting words in my mouth. What I said is they don’t mean anything. They only mean something when there is a preponderance of evidence from many tests, independent from each other

That’s essentially true. And that’s why - if you’re among those who believe blind testing is the best way to evaluate an audio component - the only single blind test results that are really important are the results of your own test.

It’s really difficult to take seriously those who incessantly call for blind testing to be done by others.

"It’s really difficult to take seriously those who incessantly call for blind testing to be done by others."

Not that this topic will change the world, but dismissing arguments just because someone did not do the particular test herself/himself was probably accepted scientific discussion around the time we exited caves.

The requirement is that test results can be reproduced, not that everyone has to do the test before talking about it. To some level it is an honor system. You are presumed of not lying. That is why statements of conflict of interest exist. In this particular back-and-forth about manufacturer’s blind testing, there is a huge potential conflict of interest. Manufacturer may claim it in an advertisement as a description of their methodology, but that is where it ends.

Even reputable manufacturers with decent know-how (Revel speakers, for example) describe their practice as including "blind testing", but they make it clear it is for them to compare their products with competitors and improve what they can, and not anything more than that. Having said that, I am not sure you could just walk into their offices/lab, but I have seen many reports of people who actually went there and were played music in this "blind comparison" way.

Now, how much credibility in this honor system does a person capable of posting those things on facebook have is on you to decide.

The posts on here and the depth of them illustrate who has the scientific understand of the topic and who does not. Thank you for pointing that out ....

rodman999994,361 posts05-16-2020 2:03pm"I don’t see much evidence that there are many here who are in your #3 group.   That’s because many of those who would pretend to belong to that group either dismiss mountains of evidence with a wave of the hand or - just as often - simply pretend that the evidence doesn’t exist."     Empty vessels make the most noise!    The source of their hubris: https://code.tutsplus.com/articles/do-you-suffer-from-the-dunning-kruger-effect--net-22227      Those with even a modicum of scientific understanding, realize how much remains, to be explored and proven.

What no one who advocates seems to be able to answer, and this should be a really really easy answer, IS, if the results are so obviously different between these cables, "night and day" as is so often communicated, then why don't suppliers, of which there are many, do these double blind tests publicly, for all to see, so they can easily prove the value of their product. The great thing about a double blind these is there is no bias. Heck, the suppliers can pick their listeners, train them all they want, heck I would encourage it, but the control of the testing must be independent. If they can prove, via independent testing, with a given set of listeners, even a carefully selected group, that you can differentiate between good quality cables and their uber expensive cables, then all this back and forth goes away.

I know I can create differences between cables, i.e. really poorly constructed ones, and tolerably constructed ones, that will likely have audible differences for some listeners.  For interconnects that will be very hard unless there are noise issues particular to that system, and for turntable cables it could be easy. However, once you reach a tolerable level of construction, the diminishing returns are not just small, they appear to be non-existent. Being able to afford an expensive system does not magically improve your ears or brain.

So .... perhaps someone can explain why, since the difference is night and day, no public independently administered tests by these suppliers? I have my theories about that ... what are yours? ... Would you trust someone who said their car got 200mpg? ... there used to be lots of claims of devices like that. What about those claims of "devices" you hook up to your AC line that magically reduce your energy bill by 30%. Would you just "trust" that? .... those both have been proven false.

glupson4,859 posts05-16-2020 3:39pm

"It’s really difficult to take seriously those who incessantly call for blind testing to be done by others."

.....

The requirement is that test results can be reproduced, not that everyone has to do the test before talking about it. To some level it is an honor system. You are presumed of not lying. That is why statements of conflict of interest exist. In this particular back-and-forth about manufacturer’s blind testing, there is a huge potential conflict of interest. Manufacturer may claim it in an advertisement as a description of their methodology, but that is where it ends.