Are integrated amps technically better than separates?

Agree with “erniesch", his statement is 100% correct: "Never mind that just inside the wall is the cheapest copper lines the contractor could buy.” Last two feet power cable 10 or 18 AWG difference is drop in the ocean, if power lines inside house are bad.  

OK- if that is true you have to explain how I could measure a voltage drop across a power cord and hear the difference in my system- when my house at the time still had knob and tube wiring.


All things electrical have to obey Ohm's Law and its a simple fact that solid core copper does better then multistranded wire, which is why its used in building wiring. Keep also in mind that in most houses there is a wiring code and while there is cheap wire, it has to meet that code.


Now the measurements I made point to the idea that the more current draw, the greater the voltage drop across the power cord; this suggests that its more of a problem with equipment that has a higher current draw and far less of an issue with equipment that does not. Ohm's Law again.

But one other area that should be mentioned is high frequency response of the power cord- another thing that solid core does really well. This issue here is that in most equipment there is a power transformer, rectifiers and filter caps. The rectifiers can only turn on (commutate) when the cap voltage is less than that from the transformer; most of the time this means that conduction only occurs at the very top of the AC waveform. So the current draw has to happen over a fairly short period of time, even less than a millisecond. If the bandwidth does not exist in the cable, the power supply will not charge properly- it will round the charging pulse. Again, Ohm's Law.


None of this says the cable has to be expensive. It does say that the cable has to have the bandwidth and the current capacity, and good enough connections at either end such that those ends don't warm up over time- if they do, you know the connections are robbing power from the system.


This is all measurable and audible. In the case of an amplifier simply measure the full power output, the output impedance and the distortion. You'll find that it varies with the input voltage. This should be totally non-controversial; I think the only reason it is is because there tends to be a knee-jerk reaction to the idea that a power cord can make a difference, associated with a failure to cause one's hand to move and actually make the measurement!

A lot of interesting takes on the question.  I am in the camp that separates are superior in most cases.  It will also depend on your budget.  There are now some super priced integrated $20k - $40k+ that I am sure would satisfy most hard core audiophiles but most of those companies still produce more expensive and superior separates.  I would be very happy with the new Vinnie Rossi SE integrated even though he admits his separates are a hair better.

 If money is no issue separates can often reach a higher level of performance (think Vinnie Rossi L2 + Pass monoblocs) provided ancillaries are top notch.  But some integrated (Ypsilon Phaeton, Bakoon amp13r) are absolutely splendid and costs -30/-50% of the equivalent separates solution delivering better value for money and a more elegant setup.  

I will give my 2 cents on this matter being involved in this mad science that we all call a "hobby" ! As previously stated everything comes with a price point ....the more your willing to spend the better your system will sound ! If your budget is unlimited separates will always win in the end because of flexibility ! Saying that; to me it comes to what you listen too and what speakers you are going to base your system on . Over the years I have used Musical Fidelity { back then called British Fidelity ) A1 ( 20 watts of glorious Class A power) , Forte separates ,both Class A & a monster 200 watt beast ,McCormack Micro series complete system even using their Micro amps as 2 mono's , Audible Illusion system and Assorted Conrad Johnson products including their CAV 50 integrated ! Each system mixing and matching sounded great depending on my speaker choice . After over 30 years of being able to purchase these used components has come to this : synergy within the same product line is real & not a advertisement gimmick ! To these old ears but together they always sound better ! After all on this BS from me I have settled for just 2 set-ups that I rotate about every 6 months. The CJ CAV 50 ( also very high (WAF) because of ease of use and the Audible Illusion's ! Speakers used , also rotated , Vandersteen 1 C's , Totem Arro's , Thiel '1.5 's and ERA 5 's . What i really like about the CAV 50 is the sound that only tubes can create and if the 45 watts of power is not enough you can bypass and use it as a preamp ! Only drawback is that there is no remote version available . Highly recommended !

I have owned separates (PS Audio BHK Amp and pre Amp). I now own a Luxman L509 integrated Amp.  Can I / could I tell the difference? Not a chance.  They both sound great.  Not convinced most people could differentiate between the two.  Another thing that needs to be mentioned is the volume I listen to music.  Unlike a visit to an audio store where we crank up the volume on equipment we are auditioning, I don't listen to recordings at anywhere near that level.  So that alone makes it tough to evaluate the performance of one's equipment - separates or integrated.  At the end of the day, I determined that the place to get the most bang for the listening buck are speakers.