Tube versus SS



Since I just installed some rather expensive NOS 6922 Telefunken tubes in my Phono-preamp, that yielded outstanding results, I decided to compare CD to Phono.

From the best of "Jacintha", CD, I selected "Danny Boy". Her voice emerged deep center stage from a jet black noise free back ground. It sounded more like what I expected from the analog.

That was followed by special LP's of Dinah Washington that had recently arrived. Those LP's were everything I expected with the NOS 6922 Telefunken Tubes in the Phono, but the surprise was the fact that I couldn't tell the two apart; both were outstanding.

What may surprise you, is the fact that I attribute these outstanding results from the COVID 19 "lock-down" which has given us the quietest "grid" ever in history. That means those of us with lesser means have the same AC power as the richest who can afford expensive AC power "clean uppers".

BTW, I have made extensive comparisons to recordings made before and after, the lock-down that confirm just how much of a difference it's made. I must admit that I had doubts about expensive power conditioners, but this confirms that fantastic results come from taming the wild AC.

It's my belief that we can not achieve better results than we have from the current "quiet grid", which means power conditioner or no power conditioner, we are all presently getting the same results.

Could it be that the dominant factor when comparing tube and SS when they both are of comparable quality is "The quality of the AC"?
   
orpheus10
All amplifiers work with DC. AC is converted to DC inside all amplifiers thru transformers, rectifiers, hi freq filters and smoothing capacitors. Lower wattage power amps may also use regulators. Because of this, the quality of the mains AC has virtually NO effect on the sound (the DC) if the amplifier is properly grounded and there are no ground loops.

ALL the necessary design to make the DC as smooth as possible are ALL included in the amp itself. Noise reduction, CMMR, smoothing, ripple reduction and transient current capability are ALL included in the power supply of the amp itself.

Where you need a good quality clean AC is if you are using AC motors, like synchronous and induction.  These may be driving your turntable and their rotational stability is directly affected by the quality of the AC.  Even then, most turntables these days internally synthesize their own AC thru precision electronics if they are using an AC motor.

Therefore, power conditioners are therefore a complete waste of money for amplifiers. The only (maybe) possible use they have is for safety against over voltage spikes (lightning ?).  

The reason that most people "feel" that tubes sound "better" is most likely due to the 2nd order harmonic distortion that tubes inherently introduce. Essentially they are listening to distorted music. It is an irony that audiophiles claim they want to listen to the exact reproduction of the sound (which the SS gives you) but then again they prefer the tube sound (distorted).

For any device costing over a few thousand bucks, the sound preference is more of a personal choice rather than "quality" of the amplifier.


Cakyol, you get the prize for the most erroneous post I've read today.

How good the DC is will be determined by how bad the AC was, as well as the quality of components in the "power supply" which is where AC is turned into DC.
My two cent, to people who like transistor sound "without distortions".
Most of these people like to talk about science, measurements and distortions - having zero engineering and technical background.

Here is the great article about tubes vs transistors:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/audiovideo/the-cool-sound-of-tubes

1. Transistor as amplification elements has much higher level of distortions compared to triode. 
In addition to that, transistors have temperature dependence distortions that tubes don't have. This kind of distortions have inertia that make them even worse for human brain perception.

2. "Good characteristics" of transistor amplifiers achieved by using feedback everywhere, that causes to replacing of low order harmonic distortions to high order harmonic distortions. Human brain recognises of a smallest amount of high order harmonic distortions because they are unnatural.

3. The single advantage of transistor amplifiers is lack of output transformers.

4. Our brains perceive distortion in a completely different way than instruments. There is a whole science of psychoacoustics that deals with this issue.

5. High power amplifiers are useless, cause compression and distortion of speakers.
Here is an example:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/power-compression-vs-thermal-distortion-loudspeaker-alexander-wilson/
"

Taking an example of a voice coil using 10 meters of 0.2mm Copper with a typical resistance of 5.5 Ohm at 20 degrees C.

Apply power (music signal) & the voice coil jumps to 120°C and the resistance rises to approx. 7.5 Ohm….Now the resulting current flow through the voice coil drops by approx. 35% ….So does the SPL….This is a 35% distortion!

Orders of magnitude worse than the usual suspects of THD or IMD which loudspeaker manufacturers like to quote.

With passive crossovers in multi way systems thermal power compression will shift XO frequencies when the voice coil resistance changes – resulting in summation errors between the two drivers involved, depending on program and listening level.

The same holds true for notching out resonances or compensating impedance….The more complex the passive crossover the worse the TD effect becomes.

Why 120 degrees C?

This is a safe or medium range voice coil temperature, many voice coils hit double or triple this temperature on a regular basis.

The energy involved is as follows:

The weight of our VC wire is slightly below 3g if we calculate length multiplied by cross sectional area multiplied by specific mass of copper.

We require approx. 1 Watt for 1 sec for each Kelvin temperature increase (no cooling assumed here), looking at the thermal material constants for copper

To heat up this < 3g of copper wire our voice coil is made from, we only need 10 sec of 10W input to finally arrive at a 100°C increase – or – if we have fortissimo playing – a very short 1 sec of 100W input."


If you notice, SS devotees define this audio thing by what's missing "noise and distortion"; while tube devotees describe it by what is present and not missing, "music", that's what's not missing with tubes.

Some time ago, a lot of noise went along with tubes that didn't occur in SS; but now that noise is "inaudible". I know because I can't hear it in my rig, nor can it be heard in the current best tube rigs. You can measure it but you can not hear it; that's what "inaudible" means.

"2nd order harmonics"; I have no idea where that came from or what it means. It's like a rumor which has been repeated for so long that they believe it's true even when they don't know what it means or how it affects the music.

The foundation of the SS devotees rests on what you can not hear. That's kind of flimsy when you think about; "you can not hear total silence". That's a good thing for them.

They have their silence, we have our music; that's fair.
     I thought that because people were staying home, they were using more A/C, or more heat, cooking more, using more hot water, etc.  OR?  Do you live in the midst of a bunch of factories or malls?     It has always been my opinion that a few minutes listening helps to psychologically isolate out the sounds we do not like, which dealers tell you is a break in period.  To support this claim, I have three complete systems, two using excellent electronics and sources.  When I switch systems, it takes a few minutes for it to sound "just right", even if I have intentionally left them both on.
     When I use my Polk XM tuner, it takes longer for my ear-brain connection to begin hearing the music, instead of the faults, and even longer  for my TV system to inure a nice sound into my brain from the horrible signal and from the mediocre, at best, Rotel FM/preamp combo (powering a Bryston through B&W's) that I paid $15 for because the tuner supposedly did not work.     For more on this, check out "The Skeptic" magazine (online)  for the article "Audiophoolery", in which it is suggested that the break in time of 90 days is suggested because that is how long your credit card company will issue a refund against the will of the retailer.