Vinyl / High qual analog tape / High-res digital -- One of these is not like the other

@rauliruegas

Mike I don’t know if I’m missing something on your statement so please tell me if it’s that way:

Your statement really " disturb " me in the way we can read it because for me you are in reality telling that the vinyl experiences is better than tape.
Let me explain about:

in the recorded tape normally does not exist the RIAA eq. that one way or the other makes a signal heavy degradation in the vinyl pressed LPs and in the recorded tape the bass range comes in stereo and in the LPs comes in mono. Additional the recorded tape during system playback does not pass through ( again. ) that inverse eq. RIAA as all the LPs.

Those tape recorder characteristics makes a huge differences. So, common sense to me says the tape recorder is an inferior medium than the LP because even with all those signal twice RIAA eq. degradation and mono bass even the tape recorder experiences.
Again what am I missing here. Is it an absolute misunderstanding to your statement?

tape heads have EQ in the same sense RIAA works for vinyl playback. it is a method to optimize the magnetic tape technology and the music frequency spectrum. playback gets adjusted to bring it into musical coherency. so both analog technologies have that in common. in fact; most phono stages can double as tape repro outputs with a different EQ to select. My King Cello is like that.

i completely agree that tape has the lower distortion potential, greater data density and can be better than the best vinyl. but to be clearly on another level than vinyl, 1/4", 15 ips needs to be almost perfect. when you get into this question, the line between these two formats is blurred, depending on the quality of each in your particular system. 13 years ago when i got into tape, almost every one of the tapes i acquired were clearly better than my vinyl; maybe 80-90%. some by a long way. since then, my vinyl has steadily improved, but my tape is similar as then. now i would guess that 60% of my tapes are better than my vinyl, and maybe only the top 20% are a lots better. but my vinyl is quite a bit better now. really a long way better.

understand that my tape collection widely varies in quality as many are grey market master dubs of unknown provenance. and the perfection of the transfers varies with the source and the method used. so my experience is not as much a refection on the format difference as the access to perfect dubbing and source perfection differences. none of my tapes are poor, but my vinyl is so good that an average tape might only be equal or less to a great pressing.

but i do have 8000+ records to choose from and 250 tapes. so there are thousands of absolutely fantastic records to choose from. statistically a big advantage.

the exception to this is 1/2" tape, 15ips, or 30 ips. here no matter what vinyl does, it cannot get there. there is a gap from all other media to 1/2" (or wider) tape. it’s crazy good.

@rauliruegas

"" the things digital misses are the tonal and timbrel completeness of musical parts, the focused dynamic power of the music, and the inner musical pace and flow. the data density of analog is much higher. the continuous-ness and tonal density are better. the ability to separate musical parts and retain air and dynamic shading is better.....""

It’s not easy to disagree with some gentleman with your kind of " pedigree " but I have good objective and subjective reasons to disagree with you ( not in all. ) and in other threads I posted about. This link speaks about:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40319018?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

this one is pretty easy.

"one signal was sent to an analog cassette tape (Nakamichi MR3)......"

a cassette tape is 1/4" tape, 4 track, and auto reversing, running at 1 and 7/8th ips.

’4-track’ means 4 tracks on a 1/4" tape. those tracks are tiny, and the sound, while nice on a good cassette, is nothing to write home about.

every one of my Lp’s is better than 1/4" 2 track running at 7 and 1/2 ips. those tracks are twice the width of the 4-track, and it’s running 4x the speed and much more robust and solid sounding.

my tapes are all 1/4" 2 track, 15 ips (8x the speed of the cassette). a cassette deck weighs 10-15 pounds, and mechanically is a lightweight. my master recorders weigh 200 pounds, and are the most solid audio devices ever built. and the sound quality is relative to the weight difference.

this ’study’ has zero relevancy to the subject of this thread. this cassette player used is a competent playback machine for home use, but has no place representing SOTA analog playback performance.

@mikelavigne : Yes, zero relevance in the thread due to that recorder type. I missed it, my mistake. However at its level has its own relevance and meaning.

In the other issue then only the half inch tape beats top LPs.
Yes, I’m aware of the tape heads eq. but I don’t imagine the LP superior quality performance against R"R when almost every one every where talks of the tape supeiority over the LPs. That I remember only D.Sax and you recognise the LP superior medium. So, I’m surprised about due all the limitations or real obstacles LP medium has during playback to pick-up all the recorded information in those LP grooves when the R2R is way direct with almost no " obstacles " during playback that permits to listen more recorded information than the one coming from LP playback that you know is losted in this LP process.

That’s ok with me at the end most of the time I listen to LPs and I’m satisfied with.

Please your opinion is way important on those digital recorded LPs by Wind Music label as that Paramita title. Can play in the same league that top recorded LPs?.
I ask for Wind Music label because every single step in the recording process been really tookit with extreme care, knowledge and engineering skills on that whole process.

R.

@rauliruegas

to be clear;

---1/4", 15 ips tape on a high quality RTR deck is superior to even the very best vinyl, when the source tape for the transfer is pristine, and the transfer is well done. tape is better. vinyl is not equal. even direct to disc vinyl does not measure up to the very best of this tape.

but what has changed is that the vinyl in my system has moved up so far now that the degrees of pristine for the source tape, and quality of the transfer, are simply higher to maintain that margin. so fewer of my tapes hold up as clearly better.

but.......the best tapes are on another level.

so vinyl does not equal tape.

and it takes a huge commitment to vinyl to get it to this point. so for most people tape is still the easiest access to the very best sound. unless you have a ’daddy’ vinyl set-up. then.........getting better tape than vinyl is harder than before.

i don’t personally know about that Wind Music Lp, Paramiter.

my opinion is that there are many modern digital recordings which have ended up as very good sounding Lps. and i buy quite a few of them and enjoy them. but......there is nothing like tape sourced or direct to disc Lps. so if i have a choice, i’m staying analog, but i’m happy to buy great music on vinyl that happens to be digitally recorded. the music comes first.

here is a tape sourced Lp i highly recommend that was recorded in 2015. it was recorded on a 24 track Studer A80, mixed on an analog mixing board to 2 track analog on a Studer 810. and then mastered to vinyl on an Ampex ATR-102.

https://www.discogs.com/Ferit-Odman-Dameronia-With-Strings/release/7850724

try and find a digital recording that can match the dynamics on this record, the tone of the horn, the authority of the piano. i know i cannot.

really wonderful. that is what we have from the golden age of vinyl. we should all appreciate those analog sourced records. they are precious.

mikelavigne,

Is the record you linked above the same as this...

https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/125556?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpZn49saZ6gIVB4_ICh0EeQRZEAYYASABEgJjyvD_...


I know it is the same album, but I wonder if you know anything about pressings. The one on Discogs is "limited to 1000" and this one does not mention anything. Significant? Insignificant?

Thanks in advance.