Too good a post to waste


On a thread that is a running example of the textual equivalent of nonstop cat videos. So here it is again.


I could understand the cables are snake-oil doubters and take them seriously- in 1980. Back then there was no internet, Stereo Review was pretty much it, and Julian Hirsch was the Oracle of all things audio. Stereo Review and Julian Hirsch said if it measures the same it sounds the same. Wire is wire, and that was that. 

Even then though J. Gordon Holt had already started the movement that was to become Stereophile. JGH took the opposing view that our listening experience is what counts. Its nice if you can measure it but if you can’t that’s your problem not ours. 

Stereo Review and the measurers owned the market back then. The market gave us amplifier wars, as manufacturers competed for ever more power with ever lower distortion. For years this went on, until one day "measures great sounds bad" became a thing.

Could be some here besides me lived through and remember this. If you did, and if you were reading JGH back then, I tip my hat to you, sir! I fell prey to Hirsch and his siren song that you can have it all for cheap and don’t really have to learn to listen. Talk about snake-oil! A lot of us bought into it. Sorry to say.

But anyway like I was saying it was easy to believe the lie back then because it was so prevalent and also because what wire there was that sounded better didn’t really sound a whole lot better.

Now though even budget wire sounds so much better than what comes off a reel you’d have to be deaf not to notice. Really good wires sound so good you’d notice even if you ARE deaf! No kidding. My aunt Bessie was deaf as a stone but she could FEEL the sound at a high enough volume, knew it was music. The dynamic punch of my CTS cables is so much greater than ordinary 14 ga wire I would bet my deaf from birth aunt Bessie could "hear" the difference. Certain so-called audiophiles here, I'm not so sure.

Oh and not done beating the dead horse quite yet, according to my calendar its 2020, a solid 40 years past 1980. Stereo Review is dead and buried. Stereophile lives on. A whole multi-billion dollar industry built on wire not being wire thrives. Maybe the measurement people can chalk up and quantify from that just how many years, and billions, they are out of date and in denial. 
128x128millercarbon
Post removed 
Because if everyone really believed this then no one would be recommending any wire
Which is exactly why I rarely ever do.
And why I cover the vast majority of my statements on suggestions of anything with verbiage like , " in my system, to my ears etc".

Not as some prefer to try and insist their views are law and irrefutable facts.
Millercarbon:

... if everyone really believed this then no one would be recommending any wire (or anything else) without saying it only works this way with such and such an impedance. Otherwise its "exactly the opposite (or at least very different)." Which no one ever does!

... Nevertheless we cannot conclude from this that everything works " exactly the opposite (or at least very different)" depending on what its connected to. If this was the case no one would read a review on anything. Why bother? If its going to sound completely different connected to different stuff, why bother?


Your use of the words "otherwise" and "everything" signifies a complete misreading of what I said. I cited three very specific situations in which, depending on the specific parameters that are involved (capacitance, impedance, etc.), the sonics of a specific cable may be the exact opposite or at least very different depending on the application in which the cable is used.

I cited those three very specific examples to illustrate that the following statement you had made ...

Actually no, they sound the same regardless of what they’re plugged into.

Either that or the wire somehow magically knows what its plugged into and is able to change accordingly.

Just one more bit of nonsense everyone believes without evidence and keeps repeating simply because someone else did.

... is incorrect. I certainly was NOT claiming that "EVERYTHING works exactly the opposite (or at least very differently) depending on what it is connected to." I’m surprised that you misread (or perhaps mischaracterized) my post in that manner.

I’ll add that in addition to being technically invalid, as I perceive it your statement that I quoted just above is inconsistent with the findings of most experienced audiophiles. Witness some of the comments in this very thread.

Jetter and Ovinewar, thanks for your comments!

Regards,

-- Al
Sorry MC but if it came down to a choice of placing my faith in  yours or Almargs viewpoints I have to veer towards Almarg.

With GK coming in a very distant last place.......