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Too good a post to waste

On a thread that is a running example of the textual equivalent of nonstop cat videos. So here it is again.


I could understand the cables are snake-oil doubters and take them seriously- in 1980. Back then there was no internet, Stereo Review was pretty much it, and Julian Hirsch was the Oracle of all things audio. Stereo Review and Julian Hirsch said if it measures the same it sounds the same. Wire is wire, and that was that. 

Even then though J. Gordon Holt had already started the movement that was to become Stereophile. JGH took the opposing view that our listening experience is what counts. Its nice if you can measure it but if you can’t that’s your problem not ours. 

Stereo Review and the measurers owned the market back then. The market gave us amplifier wars, as manufacturers competed for ever more power with ever lower distortion. For years this went on, until one day "measures great sounds bad" became a thing.

Could be some here besides me lived through and remember this. If you did, and if you were reading JGH back then, I tip my hat to you, sir! I fell prey to Hirsch and his siren song that you can have it all for cheap and don’t really have to learn to listen. Talk about snake-oil! A lot of us bought into it. Sorry to say.

But anyway like I was saying it was easy to believe the lie back then because it was so prevalent and also because what wire there was that sounded better didn’t really sound a whole lot better.

Now though even budget wire sounds so much better than what comes off a reel you’d have to be deaf not to notice. Really good wires sound so good you’d notice even if you ARE deaf! No kidding. My aunt Bessie was deaf as a stone but she could FEEL the sound at a high enough volume, knew it was music. The dynamic punch of my CTS cables is so much greater than ordinary 14 ga wire I would bet my deaf from birth aunt Bessie could "hear" the difference. Certain so-called audiophiles here, I'm not so sure.

Oh and not done beating the dead horse quite yet, according to my calendar its 2020, a solid 40 years past 1980. Stereo Review is dead and buried. Stereophile lives on. A whole multi-billion dollar industry built on wire not being wire thrives. Maybe the measurement people can chalk up and quantify from that just how many years, and billions, they are out of date and in denial. 
128x128millercarbon
tupuhumuhumunukunukuapuaa
33 posts
 
To the OP, yup, I remember those magazines, reading them constantly as a kid (I'm 44 now).  Good times.

Does anyone know of a comprehensive study done where decent selection of people were gathered, their hearing tested, not just with music but gauging their capabilities and then run through blind testing without knowing anything about the gear or the changes, something like "you'll listen to this [or theses] track(s), you tell us what you hear, we'll switch and play it again and you... [wash rinse repeat for x amount of changes]" ?
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon OP
12,531 posts
 
No. But what would be the point? So you could come back later and say "Ahh but x in this study only equalled 1,367. Someone should do a study where everyone is blind, and deaf, and mute (sign language okay, maybe, but we should do two studies just to be sure) their genome is sequenced, and x equals one million three hundred thousand eight hundred and four. Oh and let's repeat it in four countries on three planets."

If you have the ability you can hear. If you can’t no amount of proof or reasons will ever be enough.
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon OP
12,531 posts
 
jetter-
millercarbon, I am going to tell you how it is. A number of us have been on this site for many years. We have a history together. I have been mostly a silent member until a year or two ago. I am a CPA and do not have a background in electricity and don’t care a bit, although, truth be told, my last position was director of tax for a power utility.

You made a huge mistake when you insulted almarg a few days ago. He is among, if not the most polite and respected members here. There is no coming back from such a blunder in my eyes. So kindly do not use my post in any way to further whatever your agenda is. There is absolutely no common ground between us.

Okay jetter (or is it Sire?) but me being the new kid and you being the big CPA tax director and all, why don’t you help me out. Put together a spreadsheet for me. You can list all the registered users ranked according to importance so I will know. Because being ignorant of accounting rules I was under the impression people came here to post and share and debate ideas. Was mostly oblivious to the whole kiddy playground in group aspect. (Although got to say, first in-group I ever heard of with lurkers who don’t participate for years then feel entitled to lecture, but oh well learn something new every day!)

One thing I don’t quite get though. You said nothing when in your eyes I insulted almarg. Did not for the record insult him at all. He presented his position and reasons, I presented mine. Not the same but as others correctly noted there is room for both as both have their merits. Almarg certainly made his case well. Better than you make yours, that’s for sure.

But I digress. It was one thing when you thought I was insulting almarg. But now you can no longer remain silent. Now you are all up in arms. Over.... geoffkait.

There is no coming back from such a blunder in my eyes.
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