Cartridge Opinions - Sorry

@atmasphere  In earlier threads on audiogon, when I asked about your MM cartridges, I never seen any top models even from Grado, AT, Pickering, Stanton or Shure mentioned in your answers. 

After decades of reseach all the best MM cartridges were re-discovered by many audiogon members and posted in the dedicated MM thread.

Low model Grado cartridges, Shure V15, all Stanton/Pickering (except 4 top models) do not belong to the "best MM" or "best MI" cartridges today. 

This is why I said "mainstream" models, you could set-up millions of them. But you can't even mention specific models for some reason, why? 

I remember you said your entry level Grado performed as good as some very expensive MC in your arsenal. I could imagine how some of the best MM or MI cartridges could sound in your system (maybe much better?).   

I set up cartridges for others too.  

 

 

 In earlier threads on audiogon, when I asked about your MM cartridges, I never seen any top models even from Grado, AT, Pickering, Stanton or Shure mentioned in your answers.

Yes- that's all true. But- this appears in contradiction to

Low model Grado cartridges, Shure V15, all Stanton/Pickering (except 4 top models) do not belong to the "best MM" or "best MI" cartridges today.

The Grado Gold is the top end cartridge Grado makes that is not a wood body. The Shure V15 was of course their flagship cartridge for many years. The Pickering and Stantons I had were also their top models. There's a bit of a moving target here- even though these were flagship cartridges at the time you now seem to feel comfortable denigrating them.

Also-'Today'?? Wait- did I miss something- haven't you been on about **vintage** cartridges? No- here you are going on about that on a different but related thread:

Those old cartridges are superior to many new cartridges, condition must be perfect.

Its easy to see these quotes are inconsistent. In the US we have a saying- 'you can't have it both ways'. You discount my comments saying I've not had any experience with top drawer MM cartridges. Then it turns out I do. Only now those top drawer cartridges don't count, except for those that do (excepting somehow that if I have experience with them they don't); apparently its *some other* vintage MM cartridge??... When I encounter comments like this, the 'moving target' thing is a sure sign they were made to be verbally abusive.


So if you could- knock it off.

@atmasphere Well, nevermind ...

But let me admit:

Grado Gold is not a top model Grado cartridge and never was, a top model was Grado XTZ (Joseph Grado Signature model designed in the 80s) and it’s much better than GOLD mainly because of the stylus. Joseph Grado explained very well why this model is his best. The XTZ have the most advanced stylus of them all.

Shure V15 was very popular model, but the best Shure cartridge is ULTRA 500 and this is a flagship model, not V15

Pickering with model number 4000, 4500, 5000, 7500 are top models with nude Stereohedron tip, the rest of the Pickering are not even close. Most of them are cheap mass market MM carts with bonded elliptical styli.

Stanton 881, 980, 981 Stereohedron are top of the line, the rest are not even close (same as Pickering lower models).

All those cartridges are High-End MM/MI even today and they will blow away most of those $3000 MC cartridges being under under $1k category.

I have never met (yet in my life) any single person who dislikeв those top models I've mentioned above.

In your theory tonearm is more important than a cartridge, but you never mentioned exact models of those great MM you have tried, except for the Grado Gold which is clearly not the best, but Grado Gold was almost equal to your best LOMC as you said earlier. Well this statement speaks for itself.

You have a fear of buying great vintage MM or MI even NOS.
I have no problem with that. It’s your fear, not mine.

I will be happy to buy all of them if I could, and luckily a lot of people share your opinion so I’m happy they are still ignoring them and do not bid on the same auctions :)

As I said earlier I’ve had more problems with new overpriced LOMC cartridges than with my NOS or MINTY vintage top models (MM/MI or MC), maybe because I know what I am buying?

I do not know which Grado I ran back in the 80s. I do remember that the Pickering was a 4500. The Stanton was the 881. I got it next door at Sound of Music next to where I worked at the Allied Radio Shack. That is also where I bought my Technics SL1100, equipped with a Rabco arm. The ULTRA 500 was after I was done with Shure (so the type III and type IV I had *were* their top of the line at the time)- the story was at the time that they were no longer going to make cartridges but that turned out to not be true.  By that time I had gone to the Grado, which was the most I'd ever spent on a cartridge.

I didn't dislike these cartridges- quite the opposite-  I simply played them until the suspension bagged out, and bought the next 'hot tip' that my audiophile friends were talking about.

In your theory tonearm is more important that a cartridge, but you never mentioned exact models of those great MM you have triend, except for the Grado Gold which is clearly not the best but was equal to your best LOMC. Well this statement speaks for itself.

It does, in that it is false. What I said was that the Grado Green did that bit. What I mentioned about the Gold is that we use it in the mastering studio to ascertain if a track we've cut will play out properly. If the Gold in the Technics SL1200 plays without distortion, then we can go ahead and do the cut. Lacquers are 14" instead of 12" so sometimes we'll do the test cut outside the lead-in grooves. I modified the SL1200 so that it plays the 14" disks just fine.

Now you might notice something- that actually we're more in agreement here than not. You want to say that the vintage cartridges are the hot setup, and all I've been maintaining through this ordeal is that the arm's ability to track the cartridge is paramount. These are not mutually contradictory statements. But you do seem to be attempting to discredit me nevertheless.

@atmasphere  For the mastering it's nice to have a cartridge that most of the vinyl lovers actually using (like inexpensive Grado for example), not those ultra high-end MC. 

Regarding the tonearms I just don't understand what do you mean. Because I've been using Technics most of my life and never had a miss tracking or something (and Grado DJ200i was on it for a long time). 

As for the High-End tonearms I also don't understand, maybe I'm lucky but for me matching carts and tonearms is not a rocket science. Good tonearms tracks all the matched cartridges perfectly. There are many great tonearms made in the golden era in Japan (fully adjustable, clever design). I see much more problems with modern tonearms without adjustment (cheap simple design). 

It's not necessary to pay $5000 for Tri-Planar, just like with cartridges. 

Now using FR64s or FR64fx, Lustre GST-801 with matched carts, and many more (light mass or heavy mass) tonearms I am happy with the sound.

Old is gold!