Cartridge Opinions - Sorry

Dear @daveyf : I respect your opinion but I disagree with because if we really analise what happens in LP alternative makes no sense to me ( my opinion. ) to put tonearm over the cartridge in critical importance/priority.

You mentioned Technics or Jelco tonearms that in reality are very good tonearms, problem with belongs to the mediocrity quality level of its internal wires that’s makes a paramount difference in any tonearm but we can’t ask for more for the entry level price those tonearms have.

You can mount a Lyra Delos in a stock Jelco tonearm and will performs ok and if you change it for a Lyra Kleos you will listen better quality sound levels and if you go with the Etna then the quality level of what you are listening goes even higher and all those happens in that same entry level tonearm.

Who makes the differences down there. The tonearm? certainly not but each one cartridge.

Take Ortofon manufacturer that offers 27 diferent cartridge models at diferent price levels: 27 . I named 21 diferent tonearm manufacturers and maybe exist other 4-5 that I did not remember: 21 tonearm builders.

Well, each one of those 27 Ortofon cartridges performs at a diferent quality levels and it does not matters in which tonearm you mount it you will listen those differences.

Why can you listen those differences?, because each cartridge is designed with singular characteristics of: type of magnets, coils, coil wire, suspension, different cartridge body materials or blend materials, cartridge body shapes, specs, cantilever build materials/length and shapes, stylus shapes, some models cantilever/stylus are hand selected and the cartridge hand calibrated, comes with different tracking abilities, obviously cartridge motor is not the same, different VTF, different electrical " numbers ", etc, etc.

The cartridge is the responsable to pick up the MUSIC recorded in the LP ( not the tonearm. Tonearm is hold it. ) and what we are listening is what the cartridge and its critical tracking abilities are picking-up. As better the cartridge and as better its cartridge abilities as more MUSIC information and less distortion we are listening. If we want a diferent quality level performance of what we are listening this we can solve it changing the cartridge.

Btw, do you own one cartridge and 6 tonearms or the other way around? Think on this.


Of course that if the tonearm has premium internal wire the cartridge signal information will improve it.

Tonearm is a slave of the LP and a slave of the cartridge as is the TT or the phono stage.

Nothing can be more important than the transducer and overall what this means.

I’m not saying that tonearm is not important because it’s but cartridge is a little more critical and important than the tonearm.

So for me you and atmasphere are wrong in this specific subject.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Even Rega is a good tonearm and has not VTA adjustment.

As long as you use their cartridge. Otherwise its problematic.  Good luck if you want to use a different turntable or platter pad (as they affect the sound as well).

Now, we can have a great cartridge mounted in a great tonearm and even can't shows at its best if the TT/cartridge/tonearm overall alignment/geometry set up is not made it accurately.

Some arms simply will not allow you to set the cartridge up correctly. That seems to be a fault of the arm. So this comment belies Raul's argument.

This is why tonearm is second, cartridge is first (unless you are trying to use mismatched components).

The conclusion here does not seem to be supported by the post in which it occurs. You will not get the minimum distortion out of any cartridge if the arm is unable to track the cartridge properly. This is a very simple fact with which all audiophiles are intimately familiar if they have used a turntable! I really don't get why anyone would argue the other way, unless for the sport of it...

This is a very simple fact with which all audiophiles are intimately familiar if they have used a turntable! I really don’t get why anyone would argue the other way, unless for the sport of it...

Ralph,

I am of the opinion that it’s ok to be wrong as long as you are trying to see the other person’s viewpoint and hopefully learning from each other.

That being said I tried to find analogies of a recording being made with an album being played.

So I looked up the best recording session I could think of and came up with Miles Davis’s Kind of Blue sessions. I noticed in pictures of those sessions microphones and all types of recording ’booms’.

Is it a fair analogy to think of a mic as similar to the functions of a cartridge since a mic is also a transducer?

And is it also fair to see a boom as similar to the functions of a tone arm since it has also inside of the boom wires that carry the music’s electric signal from the mic to the recording magnetic tape?

Which brings up another analogy of the magnetic tape being similar to an album or platter being cut directly from what’s being played (recorded) by the mic?

If so, the mic is far more important than the boom. And for the life of me I still see the cartridge as far more complex feat of engineering and more important than the (overpriced) tone arm which I think is a scaled down version of a boom? Am I wrong?

I’m trying to learn here - as ’sport’ has nothing to with cartridge options.

Thanks all

Dear @atmasphere  :  "  Some arms simply will not allow you to set the cartridge up correctly. That seems to be a fault of the arm. So this comment belies Raul's argument. "

No, it not belies my comment due what you posted: " seems to be a fault of the arm " and I can add: a " fault " of the tonearm manufacture or maybe it's not because all depends of the designer priorities. For Rega rigidity is a must to have over any other characteristic and that main priority is showed in the manufacturer design:

http://www.rega.co.uk/rb2000.html

I remember the first DaVinci Grandezza design with the same Rega priority that after customers and comments over the internet they decided to haVE AZYMUTH AND LATTER ON REMOVABLE HEADSHELL FACILITIES.


""  You will not get the minimum distortion out of any cartridge if the arm is unable to track the cartridge properly.  ""

so what, that's a problem with that tonearm so buy a different tonearm that can fulfill your/cartridge needs.

Now, all those does not means in any single way that tonearm is more important than the cartridge because it's not.

Please do it a favor and don't try to win this dialogue because that's not the issue, please only think about. That's all.

Any tonearm manufacturer has its own priorities and certainly does not has to even yours or the priorities of any audiophile.

Normaly almost all tonearms fulfill the cartridge needs but some of we audiophiles have some specific needs. 
Example: removable headshell tonearm design because this permit to change the " color " of the cartridge sound. Magnesium headshells are different that wood headshells or blended material headshells and we don't know with which builded material that cartridge performs best till we try it with.
If the tonearm has not removable headshell then some way or the other our cartridges are " married " with the tonearm signature that could go fine with 1-2 cartridges but certainly not with all.

Anyway, cartridge is at the top, no matters what.

@tyray +1 with out doubt.

R.

+1 @rauliruegas,

You bring up a valid point. If a tonearm has a removable headshell, then the cartridge is definitely more important than a metal tube with wires and is height and level adjustable, I would think. Very similar to a boom with a detachable mic that swivels and has a detachable connector.

And I also think that Azimuth can only be adjusted on the headshell itself and not the tonearm, whether the headshell is removable or nonremovable. Thanks R!