Honest question about cartridge vs. turntable performance.

How much difference does a turntable really make compared to the cartridge? Will I hear a significant difference if I upgraded my turntable and kept the same cartridge? Isn’t the cartridge 90%+ of the sound from a vinyl setup?

think of this question as a ratcheting kind of thing. where the cost of precision of each area of the vinyl ’system’ comes into dominance. as you rise through levels of turntable quality until you get to about $10k-$15k range for turntable-arm-cartridge combo’s there will be different aspects of the whole picture that will be dominant.

based on current price real production products (not DIY or Vintage).......under $1000 total mostly the speed of the platter and motor noise will be the dominant limitation. the arm, cartridge can’t overcome those limitations.

in the $1000-$2500 the motors and plinth/platter get much better, then it’s the arms that are where the compromises are and what is mattering most. any decent cartridge is limited by the arm.

above $2500 now the cartridge becomes a significant difference and set-up quality now becomes huge as the gross distortions are now gone and higher performance levels are realistic to expect.

at about $5000 now the motors and platters take another jump up in quality, and then above $7000 now some really fine tonearms can jump up. tonearms will limit or enable cartridge performance.......but there are exceptions. certain cartridges are giant killers that can be considered in this system price range.

above $10k it’s a crap shoot......too many variables to single out the dominant limitation. and everyone has a different opinion. it’s all degrees of good.

you can make a strong case that above $10k mostly you are hearing the motor and the refinement of the drive system. not so much which type as execution of concept. but opinions about exactly what is right on this subject is a very polarized subject. you have to listen and decide for yourself. lots of great choices at this level or above.

on the top of the food chain.........get to $40k and now it’s the motor and platter/plinth that separate and above that all bets are off. it gets really crazy.

I will make an exaggeration to make the point. 
Which one do you think would sound better:

- a terrible turntable with a terrific cartridge
- a terrific turntable with a terrible cartridge

i think the answer is obvious ....

The answer is it depends on how terrific the cartridge- and how terrible the turntable.

The obvious answer is the question itself is terrible.

Now I have never used your Microseiki turntables but I find it interesting that their chief designer now makes only belt drive turntables. (Techdas)
A thin platter and a rubber mat are not much for shielding. The best shield from magnetism is distance.

@mijostin
I have mentioned only Micro Seiki BELT DRIVE, not any Direct Drive from them. The Belt Drive from Micro Seiki is something like this. Do you know the price? Not sure how many reference direct drive turntable anyone could buy instead of one Micro Seiki reference belt drive, the price is insane!

Chakster, in order for any turntable to be first class it has to be able to maintain speed in spite of any reasonable interference, it has to have an adequate record clamping system either reflex or vacuum, it has to be able to mount any tonearm you desire and it has to have a suspension that isolates it from anything over 2 hertz both vertically and horizontally.

No direct drive turntable I know of meets all of these requirements.

I am able to mount almost any tonearm on my $4000 Luxman PD-444 direct drive. Not a fan of vacuum clamping, but disc stabilizers or record camp like Micro Seiki ST-20 / CU-180 mat is what I use. Long time ago we came to conclusion here on audiogon that Luxman motor was made by Victor (not Micro Seiki). This turntable is suspended. Mode images here. The armboard system on the rails is the best I have ever used, ideal for tonearm collector like myself.

More reference direct drive turntable that you may never tried:
Victor TT-101, Denon DP-80, Technics Sp-10 mkIII or latest SP-10R.

All those are the best bang for the bucks as Lewm pointed out.
If a $2000 drive can give you more than $20 000 drive then why even look for the most expensive? You’re talking about turntables what will never be withing a price range that I (and many others) can spend on a turntable, in my opinion it’s a waste of money.

Atma-Sphere, I have this nagging itch that tells me it is the "less money"
part that is most significant here.

@mijostyn  That might be due to Veblen Effect- the same reason that people preferred Campagnolo derailleurs back in the 1970s even though SunTour derailleurs were better in every way. Its that nagging itch that tells you that because its more expensive, it has to have more value. It doesn't always work that way- if the product is built to a pricing formula rather than what the market will bear, it is often less expensive.


The Technics machines are less expensive out of volume. You might want to give them another listen; the new 'tables are entirely different designs even though they've retained the same look. I've installed Triplanar arms on a number of them- that combination is very hard to beat!