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Is Sub Gain Set&Forget Across Music Genres a Fallacy?

I have a single subwoofer in each of my 3 installations.  Two Rels (S/5 and R-328), and a Sunfire (SDS8).  L/R's are Spendor D7, D1, and SA1, respectively.

Try as I might, I cannot ever seem to arrive at one sub gain setting (to say nothing of crossover setting, but let's leave that alone for now) that works ideally or even sufficiently for all of the music that I listen to (blues, jazz, rock, classic rock, southern rock, country, some pop).

Maybe I'm naive and the answer is simple - of course dummy, why would you think there'd be a single setting that would work for everything?  

It'll sound perfect for certain songs/genres (majority), but then I today listen to Jimmy "Duck" Holmes new blues album "Cypress Grove" (really good), which has a TON of bass (and really good recurring bass on certain tracks - probably a pretty good album for sub setup) and I find I need to dial everything way back.

So if I say, okay, this Cypress Grove album is my baseline for setting up my sub, then it'll probably come up wanting on other stuff, ugh.  I am going to get some GIK room treatment monster bass traps to go on the front wall, so I know that will help.

As I said, maybe the simple answer is, YES, there is no such thing as set and forget for subwoofers across music genres.

PIA to keep changing the gain during a listening session but appears that is way it has to be if I don't want to just ignore the non-ideal-ness of the bass with single setting (not my style).....    If that's wrong, LMK what the magic secret is!  

I anticipate some will say multiple subs is the only way to cure this.  Perhaps, but not an option at present time for me.  Looking to keep this discussion to single sub if possible, as I know it could easily morph to a swarm discussion quickly. 

If sub swarm is the only answer, however, I suppose I could accept that.  But if room treatment and careful setup can get there, that's preferable.  Maybe set/forget not even possible with swarm - kinda seems like this could be an issue that more subs don't necessarily fix? 
kren0006
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
Hello kren0006,

      I could be wrong but I don't think many individuals find the idea of constantly adjusting their sub's level and xover settings, to optimize the  bass by track, acceptable or even feasible. I know I wouldn't.
     I believe most would find setting both controls to a weighted average settings, based on data of your own preferences, or a (Goldilocks) happy medium to be much more acceptable and convenient method.  Unless you have OCD, I'd suggest this method as the best solution for most but, of course, not necessarily for you.  
     I also suggest the best way to achieve this optimum 'happy medium' is with at least 2 subs rather than 1 since 2 usually performs around twice as well as 1 both scientifically and subjectively. You're likely to perceive the bass as smoother, faster, more detailed, more powerful and dynamic as well as better integrated with your main speakers and more natural.
     The reason 2 subs produces more powerful and dynamic bass than a single sub is capable of, and why it may prove especially beneficial in your case, is that bass is cumulative in a room and 2 subs are capable of producing about twice as much high quality bass since there are double the number of subs and each sub is operating well below and within its limits.
     I think you'll also find 2 subs as being more efficient and flexible in easily producing more bass, or more powerful bass dynamics, in your room when each specific recording calls for it or demands it.

Best wishes,
     Tim
 
kren0006 OP
1,859 posts
 
Thanks to all for the replies.  I agree that constant adjustment just isn't practical.  What inevitably happens is I set it to sound good with the most bass-heavy music.  That probably necessarily undertunes it for less bass-heavy music, but so be it.

Probably my next set of speakers will hopefully be full range.   First world problems ....
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
Hello kren0006,

    Unfortunately, full range speakers are not a guarantee, no matter their quality level or price, of obtaining good bass response where it counts- at your designated listening position.  
     This is primarily due to the fact that midrange and treble frequency sound waves behave very differently from bass frequency sound waves in a typical domestic sized room.  Deep bass frequency sound waves below about 80 Hz are very long, omnidirectional and humans are very poor at localizing them (determining specifically where the sound is coming from).  Midrange and treble frequencies are much shorter, are highly directional and humans are very adept at localizing them. 
      For example, a 20 Hz deep bass tone has a physical full cycle sound wave that is 56 feet long and omnidirectional while a 20,000 Hz very high treble tone has a physical full cycle sound wave that is a fraction of an inch long and highly directional.  
      My main point being that you'll probably position a pair of full range speakers in your room, and in relation to your listening seat, to optimize the midrange/treble and stereo imaging performance as most people do. 
     This is fine except you basically have to accept whatever bass response results exist since you can't simultaneously optimize the bass performance at your listening seat by independently positioning the bass drivers (woofers) that are usually permanently attached to the same full range speakers.  Adding a pair of good quality subs that are independently positioned in your room, and in relation to your listening seat, allows one to also optimize the bass whether they're utilizing full range tower type or smaller bookshelf speakers on stands.

Tim
derekw_hawaii
95 posts
 
noble100 +1
Don't underestimate feeling, especially regarding bass, in music. I thought there was a finding that we felt quicker than we heard. Eg. That our hairs stood up BEFORE we heard (thru our brains) a loud explosion.
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
Hello derekw_hwaii,

     I haven't heard that but it seems right to me.  I've always thought and felt that the most obvious telltale characteristic that you're listening to reproduced music on a home system, rather than the real thing being played live, is the power, impact, weight and dynamics of the lowest 2 octaves of deep bass, about 16-32 Hz, that is felt as well as heard.  
     This all makes sense to me since the bass is the hardest thing to get sounding and feeling right in almost any domestic sized room using typical mass market stereo components and conventional system configurations. 
     Of course, there are other telltale signs that distinguish recorded music playback from the real live thing, such as the seemingly unlimited dynamic range of instruments and the human voice at higher frequencies, but these are easier to get sounding and feeling right in a domestic sized room using good quality stereo components and conventional system configurations.
     However, I believe high quality bass reproduction requires a minimum of 2 good quality subs in the room that are properly positioned and configured.  I also still believe that 3-4 subs, properly positioned and configured, are required to optimize the bass performance in virtually any room.

Tim 
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