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Looking for ideas on Lyra Delos - muddy middle

I realize I'm opening up any number of Pandora's boxes here, but given that the cartridge designer is a regular visitor/contributor, I'm hoping to get some great feedback in addition to the great feedback I'll be getting from all of you.

Here's the dilemma - I recently bought a used Lyra Delos (claimed to have less than 400 hours on it) cartridge to mount on my current rig.  Details on that setup later in this post.  After some serious VTA adjustment/validation, Azimuth adjustment/validation and verifying the rake angle is accurate, I get what I think is the best sound I can get out of the setup of the cartridge. And, with 200ohms loading, I've sanded off the highs while keeping the lows and everything there is in check - detailed and musical.  Yet on a number of recordings (Rock mostly, but some jazz and psych with large transient swings or lots of instrumentation in the moment) the 'music in the middle' sounds muddy and congested especially on faster passages - almost smearing like I'd expect on the highs except the highs (for the most part) are detailed and cymbal decay, for example sounds right and not smeared or slushy.

Great channel separation, great soundstage, just a clogged middle.  Am I missing something obvious?  I feel like I've been back and forth and over and over and I'm just not finding anything.  I haven't gone back to my previous cartridge to check if it's something else in the signal path, but that would be the next thing if there isn't anything that comes from this discussion.  And, of course, if I go back and find that it's not the case with the old cartridge, then what?

My reference recordings to test are:

Arne Domerus - Jazz at the Pawnshop (German Pressing)
Beach Boys - Pet Sounds (Mono Reissue)
Dead Can Dance - Into the Labyrinth (MoFi Master Reecording)
Deep Purple - The Book of Taliesyn (EMI/Harvest)

and yes, the records are cleaned before playing.  


My rig:

Table: Thorens TD-124 Mk I with Mk II upgraded motor supports, custom dual-tonearm plinth
Cartridge: Lyra Delos (used, but no rebuild to my knowledge) w/Boron Cantilever/Microridge stylus
Old Reference Cartridge: ParadoxPulse modified Denon103R w/Sapphire cantilever/Microridge stylus

Tonearm: Esoteric Sound S320 Mk II
*Type: Static balance, tubular, S-shaped, with removable headshell
*Effective Length: 9.02 inches (229 mm)
*Effective Mass: 13.4 Grams
*Resonance: 8.5 Hz
*Spindle to Pivot Distance: 8.43inches (214 mm)
*Mounting Hole: 1-3/16 inches
*Arm mounting pillar diameter: 0.703 inches
*Overhang: 0.59 inches (15 mm)
*Offset Angle: 22 degrees
*Tracking Error: +1.9/ -1.1 degrees
*Bearings: Steel ball bearings
*Material: Aluminum, Magnesium
*Dampening: Rubber
*Finish: Matte Black
*Horizontal and Vertical Sensitivity: 20 mg
*Height Adjustment: 1.5 to 2.4 inches (38 - 60 mm)
*Tracking Force Calibration Range: 0 to 3 gm (for more force, turn
  weight past "0")
*Counterweight: 140 gms
*Anti Skating Range: 0 to 3 gm
*Cartridge Weight Range: 4.0 to 12 gms
*Headshell: Magnesium with oxygen-free copper Litz wire, adjustable azimuth

 Phono Preamp - Paradox Pulse Phono 70 w/200ohm loading

Headphone Amp - SRM-007I w/Mullard/Brimar tubes (6gc7)
Headphones - Stax Lambda Nova Signature (Serial - S00966)


The only thing I can think of is to further tweak cartridge loading, but that may cross the line of diminishing returns.

Thoughts?  

Thank you in advance for any advice you can give.
128x128dducat
dducat's avatar
dducat OP
40 posts
 
@mulveling Yes, it’s a small shop, but the owner has been incredible in terms of service. Decware, for example here in IL is also a small shop but world-renown for making quality gear. But, your point is valid in that I might be right on the edge of overload. Unfortunately, my other stage and transformer is in use by my 20-year old who I hooked into the habit.
So, I don’t have much I can do there short of buying another stage and I’m not necessarily ready to do that just yet.

@daveyf I am currently running 750ohms and it seems to have made a difference in the middle. It also seems to have narrowed the soundstage a bit. I’m going to run it a bit and see how it goes. It seems that cartridge loading may be the solution and other tweaks (I haven’t rebiased yet) will help beyond that.

Not surprisingly, every little tweak has helped this configuration. I knew it was going to be more challenging going into it, but admittedly, I didn’t think it would be this challenging. But, in fairness, the Denon103R setup is pretty darn easy.
yeti42's avatar
yeti42
287 posts
 
When you say validated how are you doing that?

I may have missed it but I didn’t see mention of VTF, lyras have a very narrow tolerance but there will be some, does moving the tracking force either side of your target by the minimum you can achieve change the dynamics? I’d expect a very narrow sweet spot.
dducat's avatar
dducat OP
40 posts
 
@yeti42  'validated' means that I've done the following:

VTA: Followed the desired standard as set by Lyra (horizontal parallel to record) and then tweaked by ear

Azimuth: Followed the standard as set by Lyra, used MoFi alignment tool to validate and used BT microscope to further validate

Rake Angle: Based on Lyra's documentation and a protractor

VTF: Digital scale @ 1.7g

Anti-skate - set to 0 initially, tweaked by ear (I had it way too high originally)

After having played about 10 albums I think the problem was definitely cartridge loading related.  As I mentioned earlier, a little bit of air/soundstage was lost (I think) so I'm going to have to tweak it further.  But the change was noticeable when moving up to 750Ohms.

Thank you, everyone for taking the time to respond!
daveyf's avatar
daveyf
2,933 posts
 
@dducat The Lyra requires an extremely precise set up ( not only mechanically, but also load wise), due in part to its new angle technology. Getting it close is not going to allow the cartridge to sound its best. Unfortunately, a lot of folk who either own a Lyra, or have heard one, have never heard it set up 100% correctly. This has led to a variety of opinions on the cartridge worth, usually opinions that they are either a) lean and/or b) bright. Your Denon 103R is almost a plug and play type of cartridge compared to your Lyra!
yeti42's avatar
yeti42
287 posts
 
Try adjusting the VTF by ear too, use the scales for reference so you can return to an a previous best. Lyra quote a range from 1.7 to 1.8g. Then “revalidate” VTA as this will alter slightly.

On another phonostage (Naim superline) I’ve seen 560Ω mentioned for Lyras but you stage might not mirror this preference.
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