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Better Cartridge/Turntable advice for old-school Hip Hop music

Hi Audiogon forums,

I’m Kevin and even though I have been a long-time reader, this is my first post and you guys would probably squinty your eyes looking at the title. 

I recently upgrade my turntable and was quite disappointed with the way the new system sounds, and how inexperienced I am in choosing a table/cartridge combo that does not suit my music genre, so I really look forward for your input to help me improve my system. Here is my system profile:

  • - Vintage Thorens TD125 Long-Base with 12-inch Jelco 850L arm & Audio Technica VM760SLC MM Cart – Table has been fully serviced by Dave @VinylNirvana so it is working correctly. 
  • - Joseph Bookshelf Speaker RM7XL
  • - Rogue Audio Magnum 1st generation
  • - EAR 834 P Phono preamplifier
  • - REL Sentor II Sub-woofer 
  • - Speaker/IC/ power cable are in either Cardas Golden Preference or Cardas Clear

TLDR My problem: after upgrading my modern Audio Technica LP7 (with stock cartridge) to the newer Thorens with ~10x more expensive cartridge, my Hiphop records sound less amusing. 

More specific on the problem: 

After paying almost $4k on upgrading the table, ALL my Hiphop records sound MUCH slower in speed, rapping vocal became less powerful, which I know for the genre, speed and power would be the 1st priority, hence in general the music became less intriguing. 

What has been improved is that general tonality, soundstage, are all became greater in terms of space, definition and clarity, instruments became much more musical and natural sounding. 

The new Thorens TD125 triumphed the old AT LP7 for all other genres: rock (Beatles, Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Stones, RadioHead, etc.), soul (Isaac Hayes), jazz, funk, blues, etc… are all sounds so good for me at the moment. 

I’m truly satisfied when putting on these other genres but unfortunately, 70% of the time I would be listening to HipHop records (A Tribe Called Quest, Beastie Boys, De La Soul, Dr. Dre, Public Enemy, Gang Starr, Outkast, UGK, Wu Tang, Nas, Kanye West, you name it). P/s: I’m really into psychedelic, complex layering Hiphop records.

So, what should I do now? Where does the problem come from? I don’t know if a vintage table could not do well with more modern Hiphop music, or it’s solely because of my bad cartridge choice?

I still currently keep the AT LP7 to listen to Hip Hop, but I prefer to only keep 1 table due to space constrain. I still have a spare fund of around $1k to upgrade a better cartridge, but it MUST be able to rock my Hiphop beats better than the stock cartridge on the AT LP7.

Could you guy kindly advise me some solutions for my problem?

Thank you very much and take care!

Kevin



hoangkhoi1207
yogiboy's avatar
yogiboy
5,801 posts
 
Sell both tables and get a Technics SL1200 GR or SL1200 G.
https://www.overtureav.com/?s=technics+turntables&post_type=product
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Buy yourself a Technics Direct Drive if you want speed stability, not a belt drive! The "G" is too expensive, look for "GR" instead (or at least mk7).

This is one of the best NOS cartridges you can get, but Audio-Technica cartridges also very nice, depends on the model and your budget. You need an MM cartridge for your music. But most of the Hip Hop records are nothing special in terms of quality compared to old original funk records they used to sample making hip hop. But anyway, there are some good and bad sounding records. You can’t go wrong with the Pickering XSV/4000 or cheaper XSV/3000, those cartridges will give you some warmth, they are very nice and some of them are not expensive. I have many Pickering and Stanton in my own collection. Loads of Funk & Soul originals here and some nice Hip Hop too.

Artists you have mentioned are not oldschool, it’s the golden era or hip hip (90's).
The oldschool in hip-hop is late 70’s and 80’s.
hoangkhoi1207 OP
9 posts
 
@chakster Thank you & @yogiboy for your input. What I mean in "speed" is not the speed accuracy that the turntable runs at, but the rhythm, the beat that I listen to on this vintage table. It is more relaxing, laid-back feeling that is not fast and power that I would expect from Hip hop. I hope this clear the confusion. 

Also I'm well aware of the Hiphop era but given that 2 other eras has passed since the gold school, many now has consider the 1980s/90s to be the new "old-school" for hiphop and I agree with that :). Cheers!

I'll definitely look into the Technics option as you and @yogiboy mentioned but tbh after so much effort putting into the Thorens I'm very reluctant to sell it aways, it sounds wonderfully on rock, is another reason for keeping it too. It's best that I can purchase a more suitable cartridge to switch on the Thorens. 
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