2. misc-audio
  3. 159876-150567

the sound of massed violins in classical orchestral recordings

why do massed violins have this sort of gritty sandpapery reverberation in classical orchestral recordings?even in some sections of a piece, when the violins are playing softly in the background, you hear that gritty overtone more than the melody.when I listen to the Houston symphony in Jones Hall,sitting fourth row, facing the violin section, I don't hear that sound.I have three systems { two of them mid-fi ] and I hear the same thing-even with headphones.in all instances, the other parts of the orchestra are clear.  my main system : Vanalistine Trancendence 10 tube preamp,a 35 year old solid state Proton D1200 amp, [have tried NAD,Project, Musical Fidelity amps--they don't sound any better],Onkyo dx7555 CD player [Stereophile class B],and Project Carbon turntable with Grado Black 2 cartridge [ the Ortophon Red was too bright ] through Magnepan MG12/QR speakers.Tried a highly regarded Elac speaker--no change as far as the violins go, but way inferior to those dramatic Maggies.So, there you have it. Is it the equipment? Is the state of the art not up to recording violins? Is it me? [its o.k.-I can take it}. In closing,a couple of years ago,I had phone conversation with a well known person associated with a major speaker company about this. His response :[ paraphrased ] Violins are a problem--don't like 'em.  Any input will be appreciated. Thanks.
6119
6119 OP
32 posts
 
Thanks "no romance" and" millercarbon" for your articulate responses.What I have learned is that the phenomenon is real [ which, strangely,gives me a sense of  relief ] and it is formidable.I'm not sure I'm ready to go " on and on" at this stage of my life.Now that I know [ perhaps subliminally have always known ] I can better appreciate how far I have come from that portable Phonola I carried around some sixty years ago. I still get a thrill when those Maggies go full tilt Mahler!

edcyn
1,876 posts
 
Yeah, it just seems to be one of those things recording engineers have trouble with. I've got hundreds (thousands?) of orchestral recordings on CD, vinyl and cassette, and probably only about twenty or thirty of them get orchestral strings close to truly clean & right.  I'm picky enough on this topic to rate the various labels on their orchestral string tone cleanliness batting average.  It's one of the reasons I have so many orchestral recordings on Philips.  Analog recordings usually do better on this front than digital ones, but that doesn't mean that analog and vinyl are superior in this respect.  I also gotta say that streaming via Qobuz and Primephonic probably does better with this aspect of reproduction than any other media.  Who'd a thunk it?
corelli
1,015 posts
 
I think the quality of the recording has as much to do with this as anything.  Most just do not get it right.  Occasionally they do:
Beethoven Overtures, Sir Collin Davis.  A beautiful SACD recording on the Sony label, manufactured in Japan that I am enjoying right now.
ebm
9,311 posts
 
If violins sound gritty something is very wrong with your system.
twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,318 posts
 
As others have said, massed violins, especially playing ff, are hard to record, but some engineers and some labels seem to get it right at least some of the time.  In my experience early all-digital Deutsche Grammophonen CDs were some of the worst offenders.  Things can be ameliorated by seeking out more "forgiving" components and more "forgiving" speakers.  The problem is you may lose an incisive quality that you like on other recordings.  It's a fine balance.  The sorry truth is that you're unlikely to find mid-fi that walks that tightrope successfully.
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