Telefunken vacuum tube E88CC-TK; NOS versus brand new.

@orpheus10 - If you get to try Frogman’s Teles, please: post your impressions.

Typically, in a CDP, tubes are used as cathode followers at the output of the CDP.  A cathode follower does not add any gain to the signal voltage and therefore is fairly neutral in its sonic signature.  If done well, it can be completely neutral.  I think there are or were a few CDPs that did use tubes for gain, such as the Raysonic's.  In that latter case it might be worthwhile to use the expensive Siemens CCa's in a CDP. 


Here we go with more pure "opinion":  I don't like 12AU7s at all.  Whenever possible I have replaced them with 6CG7 or 6FQ7, which are identical electrically.  Among 12AU7s I have used, Amperex Bugle Boys, real ones, were the best, but still not quite as good as a 6CG7. (You can't just plug a 6CG7 or 6FQ7 into a 12AU7 socket; some re-wiring is required.)  I'm talking about gain stages; 12AU7 is probably OK for cathode follower use. It's just my opinion, and I was wrong once back in 1965, maybe.  (Kidding.)

Let me tell you what prompted me to write this thread. For about a year now, I've been focusing on TT, phono, and cartridge. With each upgrade I got substantial improvement, but it wasn't until these last tubes did things really pop. BTW, this is the second set of these same kind of tubes, but this set was purchased from a different tube monger.

That just goes to show you that not every batch of tubes is the same, especially when you're talking about new tubes as opposed to NOS. These last tubes opened up a new world; records that have been in my collection forever are brand new all over again.

I bought Carol King's "Tapestry" when it came out, and now it's like I'm hearing it for the first time; we're talking holography, and each song seems to have more meaning, plus somehow I can almost feel her presence in the room. The bottom line to all of this is just how much difference the right tubes can make.

Also, you must take into consideration that this is the last improvement at the bottom of the list of many other improvements, all in the record playing section.

Some nice 12at7wa tubes discovered by myself when I was looking for a cheaper alternative to my rare Telefunken ecc801s military NOS tubes:

National 12at7WA “Pinched Waist” (Matsushita/National)
From tube experts online: “I’ve noticed that tubes from 1958 and earlier have a bigger pinch then tubes from around 1960. Personally. I haven’t seen tubes after 1960 with a pinched waist. The most well known pinched waist tubes are from Philips Heerlen and Valvo Hamburg. They were made mid to end 50s and have the glass pinched around the top mica spacer. I assume this was done to fight microphony. They were only produced for a few years AFAIK and the technique was later abandoned by tube manufacturers. I had always thought the pinching was to clamp the micas in tighter to reduce mechanical vibration of the structure and therefore microphonics.”  

Sylvania Gold Brand 12at7wa (Gold Pins) and National Matsushita 12at7wa are on this image. 

NOS Japanese Matsushita pinched waist tubes are great!  it was direct replacement in my push-pull amp (where the power tubes are rare Telefunken E84L). 

Whatever new tube with an old company logo is nothing but fake, an old (NOS) Telefunken are probably the most expensive tubes and there are good cheapel alternatives (old tubes). NOS 12at7 (ecc801s telefunken) tubes are much better than new (if they are perfect). 

The primary reason for my confidence in stating that, if not for the lower noise floor of the CCa Siemens, the E88CC and E188CC's all sound virtually identical, is the fact that the BAT CDP has allowed me to hear every nuance, of every tube auditioned.   That always held true by changing just one pair, out of the three pairs it takes.     The personality of the BAT was changed dramatically (not a statement I make lightly, or- often), from the Sovteks that were stock, with any NOS tubes I tried.    The closest I ever came, to the presentation of the Siemens CCa, was an early Sixties, Amperex Navy, 7308, pair.    But; they warmed thing up, a bit more than I like.   Bottom line, regarding NOS Siemens; if you want the transparency, texture, freq extension (in both directions) and ambience info recovery of the early CCa (what buyers have valued about them and Teles, for decades): the 88's and 188's will deliver, for a lot less $$.    If you need super low noise (for pre or phono), have them tested.