Millercarbon's Mega Vibration Control Journey
turnbowm242 posts11-06-2020 6:48am@millercarbon - You never answered my question regarding SR, but I think the answer is rather clear. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you read he did answered you, the one time he will. You got your shot across the bow, and he sunk your row boat... :-) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vibration / resonance are two different things.. Most speakers made with single and double layer 3/4 MDF, just won’t cut it.. HDF and panel breaks to control and tune the enclosure. You can’t have a thin light box. I found the more the enclosures sound like green concrete, laying on the ground, the easier it is to make the enclosure GO AWAY.. I’m not kidding at least 50 lb a foot for the enclosure. THEN vibration is not as big an issue, for the speakers drivers. Think about the enclosure shaking and a Voice coil trying to move smoothly through a very tight cylinder... Vibration is a driver killer in the long run... Vibration due to VIBRATION. BASS, making stuff shake... OK simple answers. I studied the mass loading thing. Interesting indeed!! It still has the same effect as a making the cabinet (enclosure) out of a better dampened cabinet material to begin with.. Aluminum, will ring like a bell, but cast the stuff, add fluff.. one great sounding material...Add 1 layer of rubber (silicone) between 3 layers of 3/4 mdf...Works good... For my TT stuff you have to have good isolation from the sound in the room and from the vibration it is making... BOTH help a lot for, my CD players too. I try to keep tube amps, isolated pretty much.. SS not near as much. I find less distortion, clearity, and longevity increased for the actual valves.. I lift cables because it’s easier to clean.. really, I lift and separate cables though, I won’t let cables touch AT ALL, if they have to cross, 90 degree. If I had it my way.. an Ampa style music room, no top, no sides, and carved out of a mountain side.... There would be NO vibration... Bring your own seat cushion, its gonna be a tough set without one... I set up and listen, for sometimes a year, then tear down inspect, change as needed.... always a little change or something I been working on.. Regards... |
oldhvymec1,338 posts11-06-2020 8:19am "turnbowm242 posts11-06-2020 6:48am@millercarbon - You never answered my question regarding SR, but I think the answer is rather clear. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you read he did answered you, the one time he will. You got your shot across the bow, and he sunk your row boat... :-)" MC made NO mention of SR whatsoever in his reply to me. That aside, being a Navy veteran I enjoyed your nautical humor. Thanks! |
Thank you, oldhvymec, made my day. How right you are. mahgister- The impactful results of resonance/vibration controls embeddings is very audible....The problem is the way to reach results is a complex problem... Yes indeed we are on the same page. As you well know. And as will become even more clear as the story unfolds. We left off with the turntable stand. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 This was based on everything learned in those two years of testing out what was around at the time. Remember again, have to keep reminding people, this was before the internet. Now you just change your browser from Goolag to one that actually works and find what you want in no time flat. At this time, based on everything tried, I had come up with my own working principles of vibration control based on stiffness, mass, and damping. Stiffness in materials gives a faster sound. Mass improves bass extension and impact. Damping lowers background noise. Each of these also has its downside. The trick is like mahgister said to find the right balance. What I came up with was solid concrete, with a sand bed cast into it, and granite on top. The idea being the sand will damp the stiff and massive concrete and granite. Seemed like a good idea until the granite came and holy crap granite rings like a bell! Important Lesson Number Two: Shape matters! A block of aluminum seems pretty inert, an empty aluminum can doesn't ring either. But what's a tuning fork made out of? Aluminum. And those things ring and ring like forever. So shape is really important too. Thinking fast, what if the three solid concrete shelves are bolted solidly together? Take ABS, fill it with concrete, with bolts cast in so they screw into matching threaded inserts in the shelves. Super strong, stiff, and massive, now also damped by virtue of the bolted together columns. When bolted together its almost like one solid block of concrete. It worked! The whole thing bolted together and with the granite on top weighs in around 700 lbs. Its pretty dead too. The sand bed however turned out totally inadequate to control the granite ringing. You could hit the granite and hear it, "ting". Not "tiiiiinnnngg" like before. So better. But still.... So I got another machinists plate and put it on top of the first one, with a layer of Blue Tack in between. A sort of reversible constrained layer damping. That's why there's granite on top of granite here. This by the way is exactly what mahgister is talking about. No one material by itself has exactly the perfect set of properties we want. By trial and error, and with a lot of serious listening, they can be matched together to get whatever balance of sound we are looking for. Or close as we can, given limited time and money. ;) |
millercarbon OP6,439 posts11-05-2020 6:50pm "....Okay so here's how it works. You take a jab like that, turnbowm, boy do I hope you got your money's worth. Because congratulations, you made the list. This is the one and only response from me you will ever get. I am my own moderator, and you are banned. I see your name, I stop reading. Got it? Good....." Knowing that I will no longer be a recipient of your condescending arrogance is like a gift. Thanks, much appreciated! |
