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Looking for a vinylesk sounding DAC

I cannot say I wasn’t satisfied with my system.

Laptop (Quobuz Studio) - > Schiit Bifrost 2 - > Ocellia Reference RCA - > Werner Acoustics, Selene (active tube preamp using two VT-231 from RCA) - > passive preamp - > Ocellia Reference RCA - > First Watt F6 dual mono custom built - > HEDD Audio’s "Heddphone" / Hifiman HE 4

From the beginning I started to built it I had a quite concrete idea of what it should sound like in the end: vinylesk without using vinyl. It took me a while to get there and now I really thought I got it: Due to the F6 the outcome is brutally powerful and incredibly fast while the tube stage adds lots of body, depth and a rich organic undertone. Finally the RCA’s from Ocellia were adding the fine raffinement and a nice holographic soundstage. Nothing smears, in just every situation everything stays transparent, well controlled/articulated and the separation is just excellent.

BUT when listening to streamed vinyl I still feel the need for action - I just want EVERY track from quobuz to sound like this. Please take just some seconds and listen to this:

https://musicandvinyl.blogspot.com/2020/08/haruomi-hosono-from-aegean-sea.html?m=1

There is just MORE elasticity, MORE tonal density, MORE plankton, MORE concentration to the point, MORE light-footedness and MORE palpability (compared to a "disdainful" quobuz stream). Do you know what I mean?

I still think and hope a new dac could be the nirvana-solution. But which one would manage the job to sound just like vinyl (99% would be ok...)?

Happy to hear your suggestions!
barrista0611
nordicnorm
313 posts
 
To get an analog sounding system, go with all tubes in your chain.

The  Schiit Bifrost 2 is a very decent entry-level DAC. I used to own one. A Lampizator would give you a significant improvement, but also at a significantly increased cost.

The Doge 7 DAC (at ~$1,400 new) would be a good choice that is (cost wise) in between the Schiit and Lampi.

Disclosure: I had owned the Doge 8 preamp at one point and was impressed with its performance, although it is highly susceptible to tube rolling. To improve on it, I ended up replacing it with a Croft RIAA phonostage and a Don Sachs linestage (at 3x the cost).

As for amps, I am partial to tubed monoblocks personally. Tons to choose from, and in every budget range.

Good luck in your search.
barrista0611 OP
26 posts
 
Oh, I didn't know Fremer's article back from 2000 but it's a good read. For me the main question is if that is still the truth after 20 years. DACs have been improved a lot and most of them claim to sound "analog" (while just some do).

But my concern is going further as I think sounding analog is just a part of sounding vinylish. 

George, what's wrong about the Lapizator TDA1541 NOS DAC? 

Nordicnorm, thanks for suggesting the doge dac. I did quite a lot 6SN7 tube rolling with my preamp and had fun with it but after all I don't think the specific vinyl sound can't be reached through tubes. Yes, regarding a full-bodied, warm, lush sound full of texture, but no in respect of all the other aspects I mentioned. I don't wanna miss tubes in my system but as I am already using some in my preamp I'll be looking for a pure DAC for the moment. 


georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
George, what's wrong about the Lapizator TDA1541 NOS DAC?

I liked hi-end vinyl when I had it, but today to me good discrete hi-end R2R to me is better in every way.

I have mimic'd vinyl to a good degree with my digital rig by bleeding L to R together (switchable) to come down from 120db channel separation to vinyls best of 30db at 1khz (below and above that it's more like 10-20db).

 What this did was to give me ''similar" sound to what my vinyl had. It kind of monized the old "left right ping pong'' sounding cd Beatles ect era digital, and richened it up through the bass and lower mids.
But for today's digital cd recordings I was back at 120db channel separation no question.   

Cheers George  
audio2design
1,351 posts
 
Where you hear MORE elasticity, MORE tonal density, MORE plankton, MORE concentration to the point, MORE light-footedness and MORE palpability


... I hear MORE wickedly high noise floor, MORE compression, MORE distortion, MORE loss of low level detail, MORE loss of tonal balance, MORE fake "space" coupled with LESS instrument separation, and more unwanted/unnatural sibilance.

I will give you that the vinyl version has more of a "live" character to it, but I couldn't get past the artifacts to the point of it grating on my ears.

But that's me ... and you are you. When you grow up with that sound, and that becomes "natural" to you, then that is what you are going to gravitate to. I grew up spinning records, but spent too much time listening to what is coming off the microphone, so what sound natural to you, sounds unnatural to me.

The fake air of a NOS DAC running at CD sampling rates, the added distortion of a tube stage, and if you could couple it with George's suggestion for channel mixing to more center the image (gives a sense of immediacy), and you may capture much of what you love about vinyl. Some friends/acquaintance have played around with a bit of compression in the digital domain as well, but not aware of any players intentionally doing that.

BUT when listening to streamed vinyl I still feel the need for action - I just want EVERY track from quobuz to sound like this. Please take just some seconds and listen to this:

https://musicandvinyl.blogspot.com/2020/08/haruomi-hosono-from-aegean-sea.html?m=1

There is just MORE elasticity, MORE tonal density, MORE plankton, MORE concentration to the point, MORE light-footedness and MORE palpability (compared to a "disdainful" quobuz stream). Do you know what I mean?

soix
9,773 posts
 
Just going on the many reviews other impressions I’ve read, if I were you I’d gravitate toward a tubed R2R NOS DAC such as the Audio Mirror Tubadour Mklll SE, etc. I believe several companies (AM, MHDT, Denafrips?) offer trial periods, and I think that’s the way to go. Best of luck in your quest.
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