High end Class D amps?


Just an observation and a question. Are there 'high end' Class D amps out there that are just as good as Class A, A/B amps? I realize that's a sensitive question to some and I mean no disrespect---but whenever I see others' hifi systems on social media, all of the amps are A or A/B. There's always Pass, McIntosh, Moon, Luxman, Accuphase, etc. Where are the Class Ds? For folks out there that want more power for less efficient speakers and can't afford the uber expensive Class As, A/Bs, what is there to choose from that's close to those brands? Thanks
bluorion
George is coming from a position of near 0 experience with actual class-D amplifiers and I expect almost 0 experience at the architectural / design side of amplifiers at all.  He only knows what he reads, with limited direct listening experience.  Because he does not have the right experience or knowledge, he misinterprets what he reads and draws erroneous conclusions.  He is not "holding his ground", he is standing in one place stomping his feet up and down.  

As others have pointed out, there are Class-D amplifiers that sound excellent, and not just the one that george is enamored with, and likely only from knowing 1 raw specification about that amplifier. George isn't calling anything out.


I am currently listening to a Cherry amplifier and I must say, I am rather impressed with it.


madavid0141 posts12-01-2020 11:20pmI don't know it seems to me that George is coming from a position of a lot of experience and the fact that he's holding his ground here suggests to me that he's on the right side while you guys are just compensating with confirmation bias and group-think. Many people don't care at all about what is true, only that they feel good about something, so when someone is willing to call out something as being garbage many people won't want to hear it.

George is coming from a position of near 0 experience
Really??? so you think a Class-D with a tube rectified power supply and a chassis stuffed with pillow fill is the answer to the woes Class-D has?. Good luck with that sunshine.

I tried to tell you the answer, with higher switching frequency (3x the norm at 1.5mhz) using GaN output transistors as Technics did with the $$$$$ SE-R1 so that then switching frequency output filter can then be set also 3 x higher thus stopping any phase shift down to 1khz as it is now with all Class-D’s
  
As for driving low impedance combined EPDR even lower, not even the GaN can compete with bi-polar A/B amps there, they still rule the roost.   

Cheers George
George is correct. Lack of switching bandwidth is the problem. I know Bruno Putzeys claimed differently in an old interview, but he's mostly a self-promotor so no one should take what he says as gospel truth.

I tried the low-end Technics integrated which only had around 800 or 900 kHz of bandwidth and was generally unimpressed even if it wasn't terrible. There is going to be a huge difference between that and the SE-R1 which I haven't listened to.

I also own a Cherry amp, the older lower end one with the external power brick. I was told Cherry was the revolution of class D, etc etc. It wasn't THAT bad, but it didn't hold a candle to my Odyssey Stratos. It's currently on PC speaker duty.

I don't think you guys really appreciate how deadly to euphonics that traditional class D output filter is. I didn't start out hating class D I developed that position after being burned many times being told this or that class D module was the revolutionary savior of the topology. I remain interested in GaNFET because it seems like that is what will finally be able to pull class D into the realm of quality audio.
I generally think of the Odyssey units more as PA amplifiers than serious audiophile gear. Throw lots of brute force at a problem, but not a lot of finesse ending up with a "warm" but bloated sounding box.  If that is the sound you like, then I am not surprised the Cherry was not to your liking. It is transparent, not "euphonic".

 Bruno is a promoter, but unlike many in the audio industry, actually has the technical chops to put something together.


Switching frequency was important 10+ years ago before people figured out putting the filter inside the feedback loop.

The claim the output filter is "deadly" to euphonics, again is "old" knowledge, see last comment about the placement of the filter in new higher end class-D amplifiers, not to mention a bit better practical understanding of how to tune class-D filters, however, keep in mind the filter is to keep ultrasonics out of the speaker.

You have absolutely no idea, your burying your self with your own brand of **** ****