2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

I missed this thread the first time around. Since we added more content to our drive system update page, we’ve unsurprisingly been fielding quite a few questions about Verdiers.

I caught a couple of comments above (one by @lewm) which is exactly what I advise folks to do. Remove as much compliance as you can from the system. In this case, it means footers and any other form of suspension.

If you have any sort of lossy link between the motor pod and the platter, you might as well be using a rubber belt. We’re way past rubber belts, aren’t we <grin>

I’m fairly confident that you’ll like the trade-off that locking everything down will yield (trading isolation for speed coupling) - whether it be suspension, aftermarket squishy footers, or anything else.

If you do it right, you’ll not only hear better pitch stability, but the harmonic content will be more rich (bowed cello, woodwinds, etc.), your upper frequencies be more pure, note attack and delineation of complex musical lines will suddenly make musical sense. In short, it’s mo’ better.

This is next level of speed stability (beyond simple wow & flutter). It addresses distortion products and the improved attributes noted above are your reward.

I’ve repaired a few Verdier drive systems over the years, and I like Ron Ploger’s motor mount fix. I prefer to take it one step further. Ron correctly advocates tightening up the isolation system in the motor mounts. I found eliminating it completely to be better yet.

On the Galibier web-site the motor from the previous generation, The Lecacy 2001-2013, was sited as very similar to the La Platine motor. However, the Verdier motor itself is high torque, low inertia, different from that employed by Thom Mackris. Both the Galibier and Derenville motors use electronic controls housed within the motor pod

Hi @ledoux1238 ...

Regarding our pre-2014 **drive system**, I was surprised (upon repairing my first Verdier) to see that he was using the **identical 3-pin regulator circuit** (an LM338T) that we implemented.

In retrospect, I shouldn’t have been. We pulled the circuit off the regulator’s datasheet, and obviously JC found his way there as well. That’s why they publish those circuits, so you can use them ;-)

Of course, our ergonomics (switching arrangement) differed, and we used battery power vs. rectified AC, but you knew that. Our motor was indeed lower torque than the Philips/Primotec. So, in total, the two **drive systems** are/were very similar.

Here’s a link to that drive system timeline that was mentioned: https://galibierdesign.com/drive-system-timeline/

... Thom @ Galibier Design

Thom, thanks for your input. The new website info on the motor is very informative. I have a question:  The new generation motor is improved, it seems to me, on three fronts: better electronic circuitry, better power supply, and higher torque motor. How would your motor compare to a servo motor from SOTA / Roadrunner?

With regard to Issues on the plinth and its suspension, I believe we should treat the granito and MDF plinths really as two separate categories. @ct0517 has commented that the granito plinth and suspension work in tandem with optimal resonant qualities. As prior discussions by @perart1 has indicated there is a  clear resonance advantage of the ‘terrazzo ‘ plinth. However,  defeating the suspension on the MDF plinth is a way to address the resonance ‘defects’ inherent in the wooden base. I hope to get some confirmation on the particular point: that defeating the suspension really only works on the MDF plinths. And that is the one I own.

Hi @ledoux1238,

I hesitate to comment on other manufacturers’ products, unless the discussion is general in nature (design approaches, etc. and not better/worse). In the case of the SOTA, I’ve never played with it.

You have an excellent point about the two Verdier bases. Anytime a spring (resonant frequency) is a factor, it means that mass is a consideration (as well as the characteristics of the materials), so yes, Granito vs. MDF would indeed behave differently for all of these reasons.

My comment about locking down all suspension related to the resonant loop comprised of the motor drive, the "belt", and the base/platter. Subtle relative movements between the drive components can affect speed stability on the "micro" level I described earlier.

In this sense, any suspension in the loop, whether it be some "squishy" footers under the drive system, or springs under the turntable base/platter will have similar effects to that of a rubber belt.

The good news is that suspension under a fairly massive base like that of the Verdier is likely to have a smaller effect than that of a rubber belt due to the platter/base assembly being high mass, and "jiggling" quite a bit less (much less so than for example, a Linn turntable).

You may well find this to be continuum - that a bit of compliance will be the best compromise in your system. In general, I fall into the camp that less (suspension) is more.

Some of this has to do with musical values - your perceptual framework and what in a musical performance your attention is drawn to, and we’re all different in this regard. I tend to listen to a lot of rhythmically complex music with interleaving musical lines, so dynamic behavior is important to me.

My take is that when the urge to experiment strikes (and we all know that it occurs frequently with Verdier owners <grin>) that you play with taking as many "springs" out of your drive system as possible - as long as it’s reversible.

... Thom @ Galibier Design

Hi Thom,

".. Some of this has to do with musical values - your perceptual framework and what in a musical performance your attention is drawn to, and we’re all different in this regard. I tend to listen to a lot of rhythmically complex music with interleaving musical lines, so dynamic behavior is important to me .."

You express the issue very well. It is about how we set our musical priorities.  I will experiment with a temporary suspension defeat using adjustable footers as my MDF plinth could use some help. Learn a bit about the SQ, and eventually investigate the motor. Your help, Thom, will be sought after.

The amount of knowledge and insights gained from this post with future insights yet to come, the informed discussions, sharing of experiences, and some criticisms of my Audio Nervosa have contributed greatly to the understanding of my vinyl front end and taught me what to listen to. What is coming out of the speakers now is far superior to that just some nine months ago! Given the whirlwind sweeping around us, this has turned out to be a safe harbor. 

Many thanks !

During the past six months, I have concentrated on improving the performances of my arm, Trans-Fi Terminator, and cartridge ( Audio Tekne MC6310 ) alignment, VTF, VTA..etc. The sound quality from vinyl playback is quite unbelievable. Last night the experience of listening to Everyone Digs Bill Evans is a case in point. Philly Joe Jones' drumming floats distinctly with 'air' on the right side behind the speaker and in front of the back wall. Quite uncanny! 

Each record has a different 'sound' that I can easily  distinguish and no two sound alike. The ability to hear into the recording venue, to separate the varies instruments, ....etc is all there. The listening experience is one of music enjoyment / appreciation without the interference or the awareness of the equipments playing the music.

Recently I got in touch with a fellow La Platine owner around my neck of the woods in Hong Kong. This gentleman, Dave, was a strictly digital guy until three years ago. With the help of a friend, he was able to compare in one sitting seven TT's, Gerrard, Teachdas, and among others. He decided on the Verdier. And he has a very knowledgable consultant, Richard Mak of AnalogMagik, who is himself a two La Platine owner. And below is some of his observations and experimentations:


1. Motor

Dave also opted to switch out the motor. Presently his is using the uber -expensive Dereneville motor. To make a long story short, he told me to stick with the original motor. 
While I had been complaining about sound drift and speed instabilities in the beginning of the thread, the turntable seemed to have attain some sort of balance? I occasionally check with the ol' Sutherland Timeline, and I am getting spot on reading. 
I have kept with the pure silk thread which is literally half the diameter of the regular linen thread. And I added neoprene spacers underneath the spindle. That is  all the tweaking that I have done. In my mind the motor is a non -issue now.


2. Suspension

Using Stillpoints and some other footers, Dave had defeated the suspension. And his listening experience was not positive. He claims that the 'sound' became very boring. In the end he went back to the original suspension with ebony spacers added underneath the original footers. 

While there are strong advocate of  non-suspended turntable, the issue really is the combined dynamic of the plinth/platter, motor and the coupling of the two with belt / thread. Thom at Galibier advocates non-suspension, but with tape coupling motor and platter. I wondered if the thread drive which is favored by most Verdier users might not benefit from the suspension as was the original design intent and as had be mentioned by Chris in earlier threads. 


3. Platform

The tweak with the biggest sonic benefit for the Verdier was the additional of an air-bearing platform by Dave. He currently uses a platform by the Chinese maker FFYX with improvements across the board. He now claims that the Verdier rivals the Techdas AF 1 no less. I prefer to take that as hyperbole, but he was quite serious. 


4. Arm pod

Please refer to this link for the beautiful custom arm boards he commissioned from Magna Audio in UK: Armboards, Pods & Plinths | magna-audio. They are so heavy he added spring suspension underneath the plinth as support. I am not quite clear if they may not be overkill, but.....

In any case, my take away from talking to Dave is that the original motor is sound ( perhaps a DC conversion may be an option ), don't defeat the suspension, and adding a good platform under the TT.