Fidelity Research FR64s Headshell dilemma

I’ve never cared for linear tracking arms. All that extra complication - for what? It’s not as though you’re likely to hear tracking error in a properly installed conventional offset overhung arm.

Obviously you cant hear it, but others can.

No pivoted arm can reproduce the soundstage transparency and accuracy of a linear tracker, for example with choral music recorded in a church environment I can clearly hear the full extent of the room, and its aural impact.

Best you get rid of your CD player, it's a linear tracker.

I was obviously not familiar with the underhung tonearm concept (being a noob with vinyl related topics, not like most of you anyway) but Lew's post it is very interesting conceptually and to me especially with the description of forces (which again all of you are familiar with) but reading it I just understand the 3 concepts of underhung, linear tracking and S shaped and the repercussion it has on tracking error.Thank you Lew

dover

Obviously you cant hear it, but others can.

Obviously?
Perhaps you should read more carefully. I didn’t say I couldn’t hear it.

No pivoted arm can reproduce the soundstage transparency and accuracy of a linear tracker ...

That’s quite a claim! What arms have you used to test that belief? In particular, I’d be interested in which 12-inch arms you’ve tried.

... for example with choral music recorded in a church environment I can clearly hear the full extent of the room, and its aural impact.

I can do that with a pivoted arm.

Best you get rid of your CD player, it’s a linear tracker.

It looks like you’re just looking for an argument.
We’re not talking about CD players here, but turntables.

Dear @dover @cleeds @lewm : Dover/Cleeds I see that both of you don’t get it:

" when the 99.99% of the pivoted vintage and today tonearms are/were designed with that offset angle and obviously overhang figure. ""

That’s why is useless till you can convince each single tonearm manufacturer as SAT, Schroeder, Triplanar, SME, Durand, Origin Live, Rega, Technics, Reed, Ortofon, EMT, Acoustic Signature, Brinkmann, Graham, Kuzma, Linn, Roksan VPI, etc, etc. that all are wrong and that no one will buy their tonearms till they manufacture the underhung ones.

Got it why is useless.?

Lewm, I owned the RS Labs that I bougth several years ago and that certainly is not a discovery because exist a lot information on the issue by many many years ago. I had that tonearm just when appeared in the market.

Dover, maybe I don’t know how to lead a scientific issue but certainly I´m not interested to participate in a dialogue on something that is futile because the audio industry will not makes changes about only because 6 audiophiles commented in " scientific " way on the underhung tonearm subject. You can be sure that all of us will been dead and the tonearms will stay just like today.

Dover been you a scientist/especialist in the subject I'm sure that you already made the changes in your system where your " mouth " is and today  you have mounted only underhung tonearms. Rigth?  I don't know if Lewm made it too. 

As I said, useless/futile.

R.

Raul, I mentioned in my long post that although I do own the RS Labs tonearm, I don't use it much, for the other reasons cited.  It is "tricky" to use, has no cueing device, and places the cartridge in jeopardy, because the unipivot bearing does not capture the arm wand in place. If you jostle the body of the tonearm, the whole arm wand is apt to fall off its pivot and could destroy the cartridge.  The Ortofon MC7500 that I bought from you never sounded better than when mounted in the RS Labs, on the other hand.  I just didn't have the guts to use it that way long term.  Because I do like the sonics of the RS Labs, I was attracted to the Viv Float, a more sensible alternative. However, the Viv is very expensive, $6K-ish I think in the USA.  You can buy one in Tokyo for more like $3500, but that is still not "cheap".  I agonized over a purchase last time I was in Tokyo but did not pull the trigger. And the Viv has some other quirks that one would need to evaluate, like that oil bath bearing assembly. No, you are correct, underhung tonearms are not going to take over the world.  But if someone would just make one that is less gimmicky than either the RS Labs or the Viv, I think it would sell if the seller would accurately describe its characteristics to buyers.  The Yamaha tonearm, so far as I know, is only available together with their new turntable.  Now we are far away from a discussion of headshells.  Sorry to the OP.