I Was Considering Active, Then I Watched This ...


high-amp
Phusis I will just leave this here as it shows to those who know something about actual loudspeaker drivers that you hit your knowledge limit quite early. You just don't get it and I don't think you have the knowledge to get it. There are things we have known since the 70s about loudspeaker driving that clearly you don't. Good day. Love to have a discussion with you but you don't seem interested in learning but may want to learn about more complex drive methods for loudspeakers all beyond your simple implementation.


As an outset IT IS about simply getting that quality digital XO hooked up and extra amps and cables all connected,

Getting rid of the cross-over on the power side of an amplifier and instead letting the amps see their respective drivers directly is in itself of significant importance, both in regard to letting the amps work at their fuller potential (effectively minimizing the need for amp prowess here)

Full disclosure:  I have never heard powered speakers.My only hesitancy about powered speakers is the hassle of return or repair if something goes wrong with the amps.  My current integrated is a McIntosh MA7900.  It is my second MA7900.  The first had a faulty DAC (not a problem with the amp itself but still...) and I returned it.  That was enough hassle, I can't imagine dealing with the return of an ATC tower speaker because of a problem with the electronics.  If you live close to your dealer, not too much of a concern.  But if, like me, you live in an audio desert or buy used, it is something to think about.
Some ask for direct comparison of active vs passive of the same speaker and I have done this many times.  SCM 40 passive vs SCM 40A active, plus SCM 50 passive vs SCM50 Active.   In both cases using ATC P1 or P2 amps to drive the passive.  So this yields the same exact speaker, same exact model, same exact amp design and same exact output devices in the passive amp vs active amp set up.  Pretty much a direct comparison except the cable being a factor, I used Cardas 6 foot clear light speaker cable and Cardas clear light 6 foot XLR line cable in both.  

I have done this at shows and at home as well as the shop.  I'm the US ATC importer so obviously I have to do this to be informed and accurate in answering people's questions.  I was also the one who provided the passive and active ATC 50s to Neil Gader for his review in Absolute Sound.   

The simplest way to state the comparison is the tone and timbre (frequency response) are the same between active and passive, the difference comes in image and resolution.   The actives image much better and more finely resolve things like reverb tails, harmonic structures of complex instruments like piano and "room sound" - elements of a recording that reside in the background of most recordings.  You can hear placement of instruments more clearly and hear the ultra fine details of the microphone/gear used in the recording process.  For example, in Stevie Ray Vaughns live recording of Tin Pan Alley, you can tell the microphone Stevie uses for his vocals is a dynamic mic, as the bandwidth of the instruments is much wider in bandwidth than his vocal mic.   

Most of the negatives I read in this thread are from people not really understanding the simple difference.  In its most simplistic difference is there is nothing to be improved or gained with a large quantity of copper (wire) and inductors/capacitors (passive crossovers) placed in line between the amp and the driver.  That's it, in a nutshell.  The endless arguments over cable should be evidence of the sonic influence of cable/copper/silver/wire/etc.  This "passive" solution may be the best idea if you like to play around with different sonics, changing amps, cable and all the rest and it IS fun.  But removing all this copper and inductors/capacitors and wire DOES have direct performance benefits.  

The most significant advantage IMHO is the ability to create linear phase of a speaker, by controlling the individual phase of the drivers.  The second advantage is precise level calibration of individual drivers which can vary by 1/4 to 1/2 dB or more from unit to unit (even more variance in machine produced drivers). Passive crossovers do not offer this kind of adjustment.  The third advantage is avoiding the change in sound of drivers/loudspeakers as they heat up (power compression for example).  The values of the combo of driver/passive crossovers begin to change with temperature changes (increases) therefore changing the sound of the overall speaker.    This is most audible after long periods at higher level, such as experienced in a recording studio where a mix session can last 10-12 hours at 85-90dB SPL (or more).  [note: listening at low level for an hour may not reveal this temperature issue so this may not affect every passive speaker the same.  Some drivers have better cooling or venting than others so there is variance in this side affect among loudspeakers based on driver design and length of listening sessions]

With a properly designed active the differences in the front end are far more dramatic than ever before, yielding just as much fun in experimenting with cartridges, tonearms, DACs, etc. So from my experience, active enables even greater insight into the minute details of recordings and all the associated gear. 


Brad
Lone Mountain Audio
TransAudio Group 
ATC USA Pro and Consumer        
Depends on the active speaker. Newer designs are using DSP and have DACs in the speaker I don’t think the digital front end will have any difference. I had a. discussion with a salesman trying to sell me a 16K DAC as to how it would benefit me after the signal passes through the DAC in my speaker? He eventually admitted it wouldn’t.
Sorry musicaddict with my wife and I’s 10th wedding anniversary coupled with the Christmas holidays, I took a brief hiatus from this thread.
Currently I have no speakers, I had Martin Logan Spire's before Covid forced me to sell not just my 2 channel system but also my house. Now I have purchased a smaller house and am looking to rebuild. Would like to purchase a system in the next 6-9 months and was looking at the Buchardt A700’s active speakers as a all-in-one set-up.

lonemountain wow, very informative Brad, thanks.

crouse99 sorry for your troubles with the Mac. The Buchardt A700’s are more of a modular design from what I understand, most components can be replaced with a simple screwdriver in a couple of minutes. Which I could have done that on my old Mac!

Great thread, Happy New Year to all, can’t be any worse than the last one...