Reference Transports: An overall perspective

Germanboxers,

after your last post, we are probably on the same page because of your statement:

>> ...(and I view the transport -correctly or incorrectly-
>> as everything from reading the disk to just before the
>> digital filters, including motors, power supplies, etc
>> to accomplish this)

wish that you had made it amply clear to us of what you viewed as a transport.
I went back & skimmed thru your dialog w/ Lktanx & I re-noticed that all the discussion was based on reading data off the disk & making suitable corrections if error(s) occured. Naturally, I continued the discussion along those lines.
You are correct, all the other support systems in the transport do make a diff & your experience

>> ...but my experience with the effect transports have on
>> the sound in my system were with the ARC CDT-1, Theta
>> Data Basic, and a Pioneer DVD player using the digital
>> out...all using the same Kimber digital cable feeding a
>> Theta GenVa. The differences were not subtle, even
>> between the Theta Data Basic and ARC CDT-1.

confirms it.

>> Would using a well-designed linear power supply for the
>> laser optics accomplish the same thing?
I don't know if something called a "linear power supply" exists. When I read "linear", I think of harmonic & intermodulation distortions. These don't occur in the power supply electronics per se. However, non-linearities in the electronics driven by the power supplies can cause the power supply to leak into the signal path & bring w/ it noise, voltage/current spikes, ripple, etc. Power supplies can be made robust in that their voltage outputs do not sag easily, high current, fast response, low ripple/large charge reservoir, etc. The electronics can be designed to have high power supply rejection ratio or PSRR. The things VRDS-Neo has done to the drive itself + to the support circuitry goes a long way towards all this. The hope is that it will xlate to better sound. It'll be better than the other stuff on the market. Will it be better than their redbook VRDS used in the 861? It remains to be seen. Has anyone heard the VRDS-Neo & compared it to their redbook VRDS? Please share this info. Thanks!

>> Your statement that Japanese mfg's have been
>> overengineering since the 70's doesn't hold water.
what I meant to say was that I have not seen any other country engineer things ON A CONSISTENT basis as I have seen things from Japan over several decades. Things were substantially made in the USA too but when it sacrificed bottom-line profits, manuf goods were made cheaper immediately.
Contrary to this, what I have noticed in Japanese manuf, is that they 1st try to finds better ways to make the manuf goods while retaining their substantial feel. IMHO it is why Japanese automation & process, R&D supported by MITI are the world-class standard they are. Even the Americans admit this esp. in the auto industry.
With this in mind, I meant to say that a country like Japan would probably be the only one to want to tackle the CD transport issue. The volume of these VRDS-based CDPs is very small compared to the CD driver for mass market players. Thus, TEAC's payoff is small but it is certainly there. The proof also lies in the pudding - a CD transport like the VRDS is not available from any other country! True or not?
The one that comes close it Philip's CDM-Pro drive & I think that it is of the same calibre as Pioneer's Stable Platter transport. Correct?
The other major countries into audio like USA, UK, Italy, France, Australia/NZ, Scandanavia do not make VRDS type transports. Why?
Their collective markets are much bigger than Japan's so the financial pay-off from this high-level engineering is bound to fetch more money i.e. there is a higher incentive yet such a product does not exist!

When you say that TEAC did not create the VRDS as a marketing gimmick, I agree. I did not mean to say that anyway.

I think that we might not be talking past each other at this point. Hopefully we have cleared the air?

We may have gotten a bit side tracked from my original response. Here is a very simple example of why a transport makes no difference. We build the following hypothetical system. This system consist of 3 boxes interconnected. They are:

A. Transport only
B. RAM only
C. Digital filters/DAC/Output stage

These 3 boxes make up a complete CD player. The following lists a step by step process to listen to music.

1. Download entire song from Transport into RAM, error free of course.
2. Turn OFF Transport and disconnect it from RAM.
3. Discard Transport into an incinerator and burn it.
4. Play music from RAM thru box C which has the digital filters and DAC.

I finally came back to this post after starting it way back in March. I'm sure no one is still following it but if they are, here is my take (to quote Lktanx with an important modification):

"Here is a very simple example of why a transport makes [A] difference."
In real life any fool with a pair of ears can hear that some with error free output sound like crap and some with error free output sound like music.

Yes, pragmatism, empiricism, and experimentation are all that I have to offer.

One can continue to argue that transports SHOULDN'T make a difference but to argue that they don't make a difference is simply un-scientific:
1. You've hypothesized that transports shouldn't make a difference to the way CDs sound;
2. You run a controlled experiment where you test your hypothesis;
3. The experiment shows that there is an enormous difference in the way two transports sound (even though both provide 'error free' output to the DAC).
4. You must scrap your hypothesis and move on.

"Here is a very simple example of why a transport makes [A] difference."
In real life any fool with a pair of ears can hear that some with error free output sound like crap and some with error free output sound like music.

Exlibris, Your take, using a pair of ears, can also find some support from a pair of eyes (actually, one eye is sufficient). Check out the following link for a pictoral comparison between Esoteric's VRDS-NEO transport and some other transports, including some that are used in top-tier players. For me, it's an example of a picture is worth a million words: http://www.aplhifi.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=560

Thanks for your thread, it's been very informative.

Best Regards,
John

John,
Thanks for the link. That really does put things in perspective.