Is my anti-skating too strong.


I’m trying to adjust the alignment of the Ortofon Black Quintet cartridge on my Music Hall mmf 9.3 turntable.  When I put the stylus down on the alignment protractor, the tone arm pulls to the outer edge of the turntable.   Should I disable anti skating when doing alignment or is it set too strong?  Obviously haven’t done this too often.
Also, when listening to the anti skating track on The Ultimate Analogue Test LP, there is noticeable distortion at the end of the track which indicates too much or too little anti skating.  Any guidance here?
udog
One added point, I think has not addressed. 
The OP is mentioning an Ortofon Quintet Black cartridge, yes?

This might play into the MC / Lewn discussion too. 

For some interesting reason - when checking for the most suitable anti-skating force with this cartridge, running it on a test record with a non-groove (smooth) section, in about the middle of the normally grooved section, you will find that even by just skating on a smooth vinyl surface the t-arm, cartridge, cantilever, stylus assembly gets pulled toward the platter centre.
The way MC related, and why, as due to the geometry of gimbled t-arms. 

So, a stylus running in a groove have nothing to do as such, in the skating force/pull matter, yes?
But the main point now: this particular cartridge using a Shibata stylus, for some reason, needs by comparison to other cartridges, a lot more anti-skating force to compensate the skating force/pull present. 

On the SME V t-arm, the anti-skating dialable calibrated force is practically always pretty much equal to the vertical tracking force, as I many, msny times could confirm. 

The Ortofon Quintet Black and incidentally also the Cadenza Black require quite some unusually more anti-skating force to ballance their skating pull action, when tracking at the optimal 2.3 gram VTF. 

Why?...
It seems to have to do with the stylus shape, being more pointed than many other styli - my best guess... and I might be wrong, it having to do more with the relatively high 2.3g VTF? 

The anti-skating force dial almost needs to be set as high as 3 (g)! to balance the skating pull. 

So, where does this fit into the MC/Lewn discussion? 

Will the skating pull be less if the stylus runs in a record groove? 

Somehow I do not think so, and why have different styli or a highish VTF different relative skating pull? 

Just some unanswered question - and related to the OP Quintet Black.cartridge also. 

His actual question clearly having been unequivocally answered: using zero anti-skating force, when performing cartridge alignment, an absolute given. 
Michélle 🇿🇦 
@millercarbon wrote Skating forces are generated just like I said, by the stylus overhanging past the tangent. When the stylus is tangent then the force of dragging through the groove is in line with the arm pivot and there is no skating force pulling towards the centre

MC, with a Origin Live tonearm and a properly mounted cartridge, the stylus is never in line with the arm’s pivot due to the head-shell offset. Simply impossible unless you mount the cartridge to mimic a zero offset tonearm. 


Geeze Louise! The lengths some will go just to try and get a dig in!  

Check this out- a line runs between two points. Just to help you out, we will call the points A, and B. Are you with me so far? Okay so we are gonna call the stylus Point A, and the Pivot we are gonna call Point B. Are you with me? Have I lost you? I bet I have, this is so hard. But it is only getting harder. Because sorry, but this is a story problem. You have the story. Now the question: Are A and B in a line? Of course they are. How can they not be? Anyone? Beuller? 

What you mean to say is the stylus is not in line with the arm tube. But this is completely different and utterly irrelevant. The arm tube can be straight, or curved, and the headshell also can be in line, or offset.  

These things make a difference, sure. BUT NOT TO SKATING!!! Please, please, PLEASE stop trying to confuse everyone by changing the subject! 


All i can say is that your table needs further refining if you have the stylus moving during alignment and distortion on tracks from test albums but yes disengage anti skate for aligning and make sure the table is level when you align.
@feldman4     I have too many MFSLs to check.  But look for 45rpm classical symphonies presented on four discs and issued around 2005. Typically, each movement is presented on one side, so the other four sides are empty.  Given the pricing effect, I don't know what is the advantage of doing that since the record needs to be pressed in just the same way, creating just the same conditions as in a disc modulated on both sides.  Perhaps they felt there is advantage in never having to put the modulated side against the TT mat.  They don't seem to do it now.
Or if you don't mind getting drawn in, you could phone them; they are very helpful.

@mijostyn     Did you ever hear an Aeroarm?  There are only about 4 loose in the whole world!  If not, please pipe down and stay piped down.

Obviously a disc pressed off-centre is faulty (many of them I agree) and will not play to best advantage, but the lateral oscillation will be exactly the same when played with pivoted and parallel arms and will have precisely the same effect on the cantilever, located as it is very close to tangential to the groove.  Surely that is simple enough.

And why do you say the anti-skating must be 10% of TF.  As @justmetoo points out, the requirement will vary according to stylus profile.

@justmetoo     The reason Shibata and Line Contact stylii need more anti-skating is that their extreme eliptical narrow profile lateral sides create more friction with the groove walls compared with, say, a spherical stylus, the other extreme.  The contact area is far less so a like downforce creates more friction.  Such stylii typically feature on moving coil cartridges and need to run at greater tracking forces, typically 2.5g or more compared with a MM that can go down below 1.0g.

But 2.3g of anti-skating is waaayyy too much.  You are damaging your records and stylus as well as getting bad sound.  @jmijostyn is overdogmatic like many here, but about on the money.  Turn it back and listen for less distortion and better channel balance.

@mc    When did you measure the friction in the groove and on an unmodulated side?