2. digital
  3. 1136569136

How to tame the midrange???

I am almost there with my system, except that the midrange sounds harsh, grainy, and exceptionally digital. Female vocals in particular. It actually sounds like clipping, but I can hear it at any volume level. However, the problem is more noticable as volume is increased. I listen to a lot of acoustic music with prominent vocals, so this is a real problem.
The room is 26 x 28 x 9. Furnishings are 6 piece HT type seating and carpet....nothing else. No treatments at all. I/C cables are Radio Shack's best. I plan to do room treatments and better cables last.
I am thinking a good DAC might smooth things out a bit. Or maybe seperate 2 channel from HT by adding a good 2 channel preamp with HT pass through. (the front speakers are already on seperate amps) Maybe a preamp with tubes. I suppose having the Denon CDP modified is an option as well. My focus is 2 channel. HT sounds good enough as is, and is a low priority. Budget is around 5000.00, but flexible.
The gear is:
Sunfire Theatre Grand II processor
Denon 3910 ....no mods
Classe Seven Hundred Mono blocks for fronts
Adcom 300x7 for center and surrounds (all bi-amped)
B&W 800N fronts
B&W HTM-1 center
B&W CDM9-NT surrounds
Another consideration is that I listen to Comcast Music Choice digital music channels quite a bit through their Motorola box. I think that makes a stronger case for adding a good DAC. I am new at this and rely exclusively on Goner's advise. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
baffled
gmood1
1,251 posts
 
A couple of suggestions.
1) Lose the processor for two channel music. I've never heard one that competes against a dedicated tube preamp or SS preamp. A decent tubed preamp will take you to levels of enjoyment no processor can achieve.

2)You are correct.. You need either modifications to the output stage of the Denon or you need a Dac. I would go with the Dac myself before the mods.The music from the Digital box I suspect is compressed. It will sound better with a Dac in the chain.Probably not as good as a good old fashion cd player run through a Dac though.

If you have $5000 to spend .You could easily do both tubed preamp and Dac with money to spare if you shop smart.You could then use the rest of the money at your discretion on room treatments and cables. Just swapping the preamp out will make a HUGE difference from the start.The Dac will also have a large impact..if you get a decent one..notice I didn't say expensive.;-)

Have fun
meerp1
17 posts
 
Hi Baffled,
I am using B&W CDM1-NT's as my LR and the mids are similar to what you describe but only usually when I listen to rock or pieces that are heavy in the mid...like a lot of instruments in the same freq range. I use a DAC and have a tubed pre & amp so I'm not sure that thats the answer to your problem. What I would first suggest is the cheapest remedy...speaker placement. If you have the room experiment. Subtle changes can greatly change the sound of your speakers. Second, I suggest acoustic treatments for the listening room. A bad room can make the best equipment sound bad. BTW I do enjoy the tube gear and DAC but I'm not sure it would help you. The 3910 is a good unit, perhaps not as good as hi end CDP's, but shouldn't be causing what you describe. Hopefully others will chime in as there are those more experienced than myself. Good luck, you have nice gear and there should be a remedy.
Jeff
meerp1
17 posts
 
Gmood1 makes a good point by taking the processor out of the mix. Have you tried the Denon & Classe only to drive the B&W's? Again, your gear is nice so maybe a process of illimination might be the ticket. Along those lines you can also try the Denon direct. Not that the Denon is better, which it isn't, but maybe the chain is causing issues. This is a method of troubleshooting. Definately a path to take before spending hard earned cash.
Jeff
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
"midrange sounds harsh, grainy, and exceptionally digital. Female vocals in particular. It actually sounds like clipping, but I can hear it at any volume level. However, the problem is more noticable as volume is increased"

I have a Sunfire Theatergrand II...it did not sound like that in my system. I don't use mine in my music system but I have used it there in the past. I suspect you could have a problem driver in one of your speaker?...try switching the speakers out and putting another pair in their place.

Another thought is that you may have a cumulative effect going on...many components, many with a degree of harshness.

I don't recall any "large degree" of midrange grain or harshness going on when I had my Sunfire placed between my Krell Ksa-250 and Apogee Duetta Signatures for around 6 months...nothing like what your hearing?

Dave
rrsclyde
84 posts
 
Just a heads up--I tried feeding the digital signal from my Cox Comm. (Sci. Atlanta hardware) digital cable box to my Metronome 24/96 Sig. DAC. Works fine on PCM signals BUT NOT when Music Choice channels are selected. So I can only guess that the digital Music Choice signal, at least in my area, is not PCM. I welcome any input.
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