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Speakers The single most critical component

I know we've been over this Q hundreds of X's over the past 20 years here on audion, You can find dozen of topics dealing with this Q <which is the ,,,,most important component...>>
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system. 
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me  , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires  some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter)  in  the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity. 
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity  single drivers. 
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style  aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs. 
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic. 
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
 a  kt88 in brand X will sound  close to brand Y. 
So amplification takes a  distant 2nd place in critical component.  No need to break the bank buying amp A vs  a  lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all  tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound  close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is  only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
 the Shanling
only a  miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17. 
Now as for  best source  , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds. 
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy. 
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where  the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity  voicing  issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker  you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years, 
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances. 
To sum up, a  ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver. 
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity. 

mozartfan
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
The posts on this thread thread appear to have deviated considerably from commenting specifically on the original poster’s postulate. In my opinion it would be considerably more interesting if subsequent posts were to concentrate on the issue at hand.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hey Pesky
Thanks for the REFOCUING of the  main  issues here.
Which can be stated as
1) can anyone provide evidence that a  low db speaker is tube friendly?
2) which other speaker design will out perform a  FR/Compression tweet with tube amplification?

Folks are  posting opinions which have nothing whatsoever to do with these 2 crucial/critical/yet unresolved questions
Neither of which has been presented to the audiophile community , at least not as clean, concise as I have.
WE are in consideration of the performance of a  tube amplification, , specifically which sytle of engineering designs will best suit the requirements of tube amplification.
Most are just ranting and raving opinions which have nothing at all to do with this critical question.
I am not going to rehash what I wrote above.
Only those who have actual experience with FR , canunderstand many  valid points i raise in my posts.
If audiophiles wish to hang on to old rusty, crusty ideas about tube amplification and speakers required, go right ahead, 
Remain in lala land. 
You are missing out on acheiving high fidelity, which is the gaol of our hobby.
My wife  suggests i wait til i have cash for the real deal, Berlin FR and pass up on the 2 chinese labs making clones of the Berlin :abs FR.
This is the road i will take, It will be some time before i can recover from the $1800 Thor upgrade disaster.
Box/xover designs are worthless trash  AFAIC
Seas, Scanspeak, Troels Gravesen are all working with old dated trash technology.
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
I‘m going to throw in the ‘weakest link‘ philosophy, although I have no personal attachment.

~~~~~
Richard Gray loaned me his baby Gray, a modded Dyanco EL35 from the 70's. 
Closely matched the Jadis Defy7 which retailed for $9k.
 Just about any well designed tube amp will do, but as for speakers, 
Only FR will meet the requirements to voice  tube amplification. 
pesky_wabbit's avatar
pesky_wabbit
1,183 posts
 

OK I‘ll nail my colours to the mast: my primary directive is ’garbage in garbage out‘, with ’weakest link’ lurking in the background.

By that I mean that the source should always take precedence, and that a  top down hierarchy is justified. However,  in pursuit of this ideal gross imbalances in the system should not be tolerated.

Give me your best shot.


dletch2
455 posts
 
Can't agree with that pesky, as what ultimately comes out the end is a combination of additive error and multiplicative error. The additive error of speakers far outweighs the additive error of the source multiplied by everything that happens after it. IMHO


I will give you, for vinyl at least, that your source may alter the sound significantly enough, in a way that is highly pleasing to you, just as a tube amp may, and I could see circumstances where that is essential, at the individual level, to give a level of precedence. However, I feel that the speakers would need to be of sufficient quality before that became dominant. I can also accept that the combination of a tube amplifier and speaker could alter the sound enough to be accepted as an inseparable unit, at least for an individual who likes the result. 
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
so you did it backwards. . The point is, various electronics are much more alike than different while speakers vary widely


~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BINGO
My  Shanling 3000 is onlya  miniscule gain over the Cayin 17
The Jadis JS 2 Mark2 is onlya  miniscule gain over the Shanling, 
I could easily,,well, lets say I perfer the nuances of the JS2 Mark2.
But then I perfer my Philips 777 phono over the Jadis DAC/cd experience.
The Defy7, I could find at least 3,4,5 other tube amps at alot less cash, satisfied.
Spaekers,
Seas offers the highest fidelity speakers in the EXCEL line  in the Thors. Voice the female jazz cds like live sound stage. 
Very low distortion at low gain. 
bass likea  sub woofer with the new Mundorf <<beasty>> caps.
Midrange  not muddy, not warm. at low/mid gain. 
So you ask, then what is it that a  single 6.5 Diatone FR did which made me realize Richard Gray was right alllll along bugging me about the Thors  = The wrong speaker for the Defy7.
I had no idea what this sensitivity spec was all about.
When I hooked up the FR on one channel, the Thor on the other,,and fliped the balance , right to left and back,.
It was all clear, a true revelation. After I disconnected the Thor, I listed them here and other sites. Cheap, so far no offers, and not going to get any offers, 
those dinasaurs are going to Richard's chop shop and  the components dumped on ebay for  pennies on the $.
My purpose here is only to expose the old technology vs the new technology.
The 1970's box/xover speaker thing, grew deep roots in my ideas as what a speaker should be all about.
FR will be my only choice as its the speaker made for all tube amplification. 
Richard did not help me at all to come to this realization, He was all over the place with suggestions, nothing about FR. 
This was all, 100% my research and my hard won experience.
No one has to follow any of my conclusions, 
But think about it, ask yourself,, am I stuck in old ideas about what a  speaker is all about.
If you  get the feeling what once was my love and respect for box/xover designs, has now fliped over to , being a  basher and a  hater of that technoology.
You are correct.
I HATE The Seas Thors. 
I hate all Troels Gravensen designs to boot. 


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