Thiel Owners

I just wanted to follow up on my earlier post about SST Ampzilla 2000 monoblock amps.  I've spend some quality time now with the Ampzilla's powering my CS7.2's.  This setup is actually the Ampzilla monoblock amps as well as the matching Ambrosia preamp.  My main system is an ARC Reference 3 preamp driving a pair of Levinson 436's.  I've also recently used an Aragon stack (Aurum preamp + Palladium 2K amps) with the 7.2's.  So far, I am really impressed.  My listening space is medium sized (15' x 30'), but the SST setup seems to drive the speakers every bit as good as the Aragon setup.  I need to do some sort of A/B with the ARC/Levinson setup and to try them with the CS5's.  However, my initial thought is these are very much worthy of driving a pair of Thiels.  They have great control of the speakers, are DEAD quiet, and otherwise don't seem to get in the way of the imaging and accuracy that Thiel speakers are known for.  I know the cosmetics aren't for everyone, but I think at today's prices (you can get them new for a fraction of "retail") they are a relative bargain.

gwgjr31

Good to see you here again. I am impressed with all of your systems!
Which brand(s) of cables and cords are you currently using?
I believe that you are the only Panel member here utilizing SST Ampzilla.
Looking forward in reading more about A/B shoot-outs. Enjoy the Music!

Happy Listening!

#jafant

Good to see you here again. If you are the kind of Audiophile whom enjoys rich texture within musical passages, the competition, will always result short. What gear is in your current system?

Hi jafant,

You may be sorry you asked!

I am still sorting things out as I feel feel my Theil setup lacks that "live presence". Got a pair of Tyler Acoustics speakers along with CJ LP66S tube amp. Pretty musical with the CJ 17LS2 preamp. Definitely different for me and a work in progress. 

Current main system: PS Audio PWT, Soekris DAC1421, CJ17LS2, DNA-500, Synergistic Research Alpha inconnects, and Thiel CS5i's with thicker than lamp cord for speaker wire. Analog is on hold until cabinet/space logistics are worked out.

The Soekris DAC has about 100 hours on it and may replace my Theta ProBasic III DAC. I believe (I think) the Soekris is providing more detail that helps with overall sound quality including more bite on the front end of bass notes, better ambience, better liquidity, and deeper soundstage. I am in the $3000 to $5000 budget range for a used DAC and the Soekris is meant to educate me about current discrete Ladder DACs. Sounds pretty good for 900 dollars and about 3 pounds. Will spending the extra thousands result in better sound or just in owning another thirty pound DAC?

I have a Don Sachs preamp on order with different output capacitors to manage the 10K ohm input impendance of the DNA-500. The experimentation with the tube amp convinced me to sell my Prima Luna Dialogue preamp and I wanted to try another preamp. The PL just came across as too analytical for my taste/setup. I have been told that the Don Sachs will be like lifting a veil from my speakers. We shall see. Might give me the liveliness for which I am searching. 

I am toying with making the plunge to try tube monos with the Thiels. Will not be a cheap endeavor and flies in the face of a lot of advice on this and other threads. I am thinking about Carver 350 monos as place to start as they are supposed to be stable into a one ohm load. Otherwise, things become much more expensive.

Feedback about any of this is desired and appreciated!.

Thanks for listening!

Dsper

Dspr - I’ll jump in and ask for any and all detail you might develop around this exploration. The ’come alive’ characteristic is something of considerable note in Thiel’s history. After "New Thiel" bought the company in 2013, long-time industry supporter Steve DeFuria came on as sales manager and acting general manager. He experimentally stripped down the XOs of some models (don’t know which) to lose the tight tolerance control that Jim applied to all his drivers. Those simplified crossovers had less stringent frequency response tolerances with less than half the parts count. The listening panel results included "more alive, especially at lower volumes".

In the case of the CS5(i), there are 32 elements in the time delay circuits for the lower and upper midrange drivers. I speculate that removal of those bucket-brigade lines would make the speaker more responsive, but at the cost of time focus. In the 1988 development of the CS5, I wanted to sculpturize the baffle to geometrically time align those drivers. Jim liked electronic solutions - that being his wheelhouse, and we got bucket brigade delay - with 32 extra coils, caps and resistors.

I recall the first Stereophile review by John Atkinson and Larry Archibald who made the 'not alive' complaint. I recall (vaguely-perhaps another product) that substitution of Goertz flat wire raised the veil, as did short cable runs. 

I will speculate that bi-wiring would help this problem. Those 3 woofers take tons of current to nearly 10Hz. The electromagnetic propagation effects of that current on the higher frequency time domain reactivity would be substantial. If you split the signal, I suggest ganging the 3 woofers separate from the other three drivers. Jim would disapprove only if you used disparate cables for the two runs. Of course the ultimate configuration is with 4 amps - two pairs of Benchmark AHB-2s would do nicely. We can always dream.

Your present experience points to a big disappointment in Jim’s career and a prime motivation to adopt reflex bass alignments in the upper end products. From the peanut gallery, I see serious merit in further development of his first approach - sealed bass with various means of augmentation. Perhaps a more refined equalizer? Please keep us informed of your experiments and comparisons with other gear.

I find my 3.7s very lively and satisfying at low volumes.  I've read that the superior drivers didn't need the very complex crossover that earlier models did.  I also run stereo amps bridged mono so the gain is high and I have found that to result in a livelier sound.  It might just be that I find the increased distortion pleasing but whatever it is I prefer it.