Just read the review ‘there are are other loudspeakers that can do the the same thing - the Naim IBL‘ I think i‘ll stick to mine and save the $29k.
Speakers The single most critical component
I know we've been over this Q hundreds of X's over the past 20 years here on audion, You can find dozen of topics dealing with this Q <which is the ,,,,most important component...>>
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system.
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter) in the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity.
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity single drivers.
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs.
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic.
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
a kt88 in brand X will sound close to brand Y.
So amplification takes a distant 2nd place in critical component. No need to break the bank buying amp A vs a lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
the Shanling
only a miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17.
Now as for best source , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds.
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy.
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity voicing issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years,
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances.
To sum up, a ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver.
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity.
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system.
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter) in the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity.
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity single drivers.
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs.
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic.
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
a kt88 in brand X will sound close to brand Y.
So amplification takes a distant 2nd place in critical component. No need to break the bank buying amp A vs a lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
the Shanling
only a miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17.
Now as for best source , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds.
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy.
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity voicing issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years,
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances.
To sum up, a ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver.
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity.
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- 353 posts total
PS: im quite confused by the Voxativ hype. The frequency response is average at best. I feel like audiophile community look at the prices and automatically assume Voxativ are the best cause they are extremely highly priced.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @ Murphythe cat Quite a impressive DIY project you have going on. The 4 inch Fostex is not enough bass for me. This 6.5 Diatone chinese clone, is not bad, livable/doable, But looking fora bit more So I figure if Im going to pay $2k for the Voxativ, better go 8 inch, I've livied with these Thor dual 6.5's, nice bass, but want the lower registers to come through.+ a single wider cone , as i listen at low gain, nice easy relaxed sound. I'm not after perfection, uphoria, Nirvana, Speaker heaven, Not at all. Consider i lived with the 87db Thors for 20 years, A 8 Vox will be as close to Mt Everest as these ears will get in my remaining years. Tradeoffs WE all agree, tarde offs on every amp, source, speaker. I am waiting on Richard Gray to provide at least 3 alternatives for my Defy KT88 amplifier. He says FR is the wrong speaker, same vote as my Thors, So far he has not written back. The 3 alternatives to my Voxativ, I am more than surem, all 3 will have ~~issues~~ tradeoffs that will be close to the Thors ~~faults/weaknesses/issues~~~ You say the Vox chart looks dreadful. I can not read charts, diagrams, I know one tech on YT says charts are 1 thing, listening is yet another,,Wait tahts the founder of Voxativ stating this idea. I've heard the Vox only via YT uploads, I LOVEEEEE what I heard. + I;'ve read some comments from YTers who attended the Audio Shows, both said to the effect ~~~Voxativ was best room at the show~~~ For what reason would they be biase? Even lie? No reason at all. You can raed comments all over the Inet that Voxativ's speakers are the finest musical voiced speaker they have ever experienced. Its all over the Inet testimonies from real audiophiles. You can not find even 1 speaker which has such accolades, super high prasies. Vox is the only speaker where folks say ~~Simply the finest~~~ Why would they lie? I see no reason they are selling snakeoil,. Not like the snakeoil we have all been guzzling these past 40+ years about speakers. Vox is the New Kid on the block, Which is why there is so much resistece. The Lab is in Berlin. My guess is sales are far higher in the EU vs the USA. can anyone here provide a alternative choice in speakers for the Defy7 KT88, other than Voxativ entry model, all i can Afford after The Thor $1900 upgrade broke my bank. You also mention Vox are ~~high priced~~ Most are wayyy out our budgets. But they offera few entry models at near $2k-$3k. Considering the used market for box/xover designs here on audiogon, most are in the $$$$$$$$, wayyy over the $2k mark + Shipping = $$$$$ = Voxativ's are budget/low priced/ = a steal. Worlds finest sounding pre high fidelity speaker for alotttt less than any of Troel Gravesen's 2 or 3 way xover designs Vox are best bang for the buck. |
Hows about a true Loftin-White with NO CAPS in the signal path to mess things up. Design elegance always trumps boutique components. i‘m available....... And by the way, you haven‘t addressed any of the issues I have raised. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~Loftin White looks stunningly gorgeous, A bit heavy and price??? also can not recall what exact issue you wish i respond to. Refresh please Richard mentioned for a really good SET, amp should weigh over 100 lbs. = not doable. My Defy7 is 25 lbs too heavy for me. @ 75 lbs. I am about to have Ricahrd put chrome handels near the trans, for easy handling, But then becomes unsellable. Has anyone hearda push pull with FR single drivers? How was the result? |
I was seriously thinking about adding this BIFrost Seas kit as a alternative to the Thor, Just now i cked the db sens Are you ready ~~~~~~84db sens~~~~~~ Seas is going in reverse. They are wayyy behind the new technology. They need to invent kits which are at the very least 92db, if not 93db sens at the very lowest range. THis is the Flagship Cresendo tweeter. http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=386:bifros-seas-diy-kits&... Just got in a DavidLouis HK Vifa Neodynium clone tweeter, Much superior highs vs the Millenium, The issues with the Millenium and I'm guessing the newest flagship The Cresendo is theyy try become a mid range anda tweeter all in 1. Neither of which come through with success, due to the extemely low sens, 87 db. Its <,wet blanket>> tweeter. The $50 /pair Vifa clone works just fine, vs Seas $700 pair flagship ~~bombs~~ |
- 353 posts total