Speakers The single most critical component


I know we've been over this Q hundreds of X's over the past 20 years here on audion, You can find dozen of topics dealing with this Q <which is the ,,,,most important component...>>
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system. 
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me  , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires  some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter)  in  the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity. 
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity  single drivers. 
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style  aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs. 
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic. 
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
 a  kt88 in brand X will sound  close to brand Y. 
So amplification takes a  distant 2nd place in critical component.  No need to break the bank buying amp A vs  a  lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all  tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound  close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is  only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
 the Shanling
only a  miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17. 
Now as for  best source  , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds. 
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy. 
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where  the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity  voicing  issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker  you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years, 
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances. 
To sum up, a  ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver. 
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity. 

mozartfan
@mozartfan --

talk about resist changes,
WOW,
I will not continue down the xover design any longer,
40 years of xovers is quite enough for this audiophile.
You can have em.

I suppose you refer to passive cross-overs first and foremost, and (if so) on that we agree. Instead of going totally sans XO though I’m using one actively (DSP), implemented prior to amplification and with one XO-point on the main speakers only - in the more or less critical band (just above 600Hz), that is; a XO-point is also placed below 100Hz for subs augmentation.

Debate arises over where the lesser harmful XO-point(s) should be placed, but in a 2-way main speaker design that can be dictated by factors that wouldn’t consider the most optimal XO-point as an outset. Using non-waveguide loaded dome tweeters necessitates a XO typically not much lower than 2kHz, whereas acoustic transformers can lower that point considerable with dome tweeters, AMT units and compression drivers alike (with the latter offering the lowest extension), and hereby give way to experimentation - in conjunction with other design considerations - on where to most optimally place the XO-point.

To me the very important "power region" (~150 to 600Hz) should be left untarnished - that is, sans XO-point here - and be reproduced with ample radiation area. One or two high efficiency paper coned 15" drivers here, not least actively driven, simply smothers anything lower eff. typical 8" or smaller alternative with a more unforced, dynamic and naturally full presentation here. They won’t extend clear of the central midrange though, but that mayn’t be an issue with a large horn to cover from 6-700Hz on up, offering qualities here - also in regard to directivity control - that direct radiating, smaller coned drivers wouldn’t be able to replicate.

Resisting changes mayn’t be a bad thing, not least in light of what has gone before that position and shaped it into what it is, but it can also be a rigid stance that limits oneself from further exploration. I’ve expelled myself from much of typical hifi and wouldn’t dream of changing that with what I know now. One the other hand, if spacing and economy had allowed I’d have cherished seeking out a secondary set-up with a smaller pair of passively driven 2-way speakers (or even XO-less widebander) and a good integrated amp and source - and just that with no subs or anything other. Simple, clean - like it all started..
position and shaped it into what it is, but it can also be a rigid stance that limits oneself from further exploration.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stubborness is my middle name.
I’m from the old early days of audiophile comos.
xover low eff was The Speaker, nothing else existed.
I am cking our FR as of a  few months ago, 

Now that i have ACTUALLY listened to a high , well 91db Diatone, efficiency, now i can say xover low efficiency is not my cup of tea.
I have completely shoved off the table the traditional xover designs.
Also have shoved completely off the table Voxativ designs, as the US dealers are *Not Avaliable* for ordering. 

= AFAIC,
Vox does not even exist.
I’m going 10 inch wide band/compression horn and its a done deal.
Last and final train ride on the speaker merry-go-round.
Ricahrd Gray has shared a stoey of one client that had these 83 db speakers and made the ~~fateful~~ decision to adda SET Atmosphere 2.8 watt amp.
Blew the SET’s like 2 or 3x’s. as the Atmos dealer told the buyer <<oh yeah sure our Atomos can drive the 83 db speaker, BY ALL MEANS**, after 3rd blow, the owner called Atmnos,,<<well what we mean, is not play too loud>> ^%^$#@#&*(^&%%%$%

I’m going in the opposite direction,. Pairing a 100 pure watt per channel with a 97 db wide band.
Massive waste of wattage,
but it is
what it will be.


btw, the 8 wide band 94db just arrived, tested w/o cabinet vs the Diatone 91db w cabinet
the  8 94db  reduced  the Diatone 6.5 91db  to ~~Wet Blanket~~ status,
Things are really starting to click now with this sensitivyty thing.
The higher the sens the superior the imaging.
So the Diatone 91  smashed the seas Thor 87 db to Wet Blanket status, 
The 8 94 db sens, smashed the diatone 6.5 91 db to Wet Blanket Status.
Now what do you think a  10  98db goning to do to the 8 94db sens???
Anyone?
Well I'll tell you what the 10 / 98db  will do to the 8/ 94db, 
Going to smash it to 
Wet Blanket speaker. 
This is how this db sens game works. 

I'm guessing 98db is about as high as i figure i want to go in this deal.
I'm quite surea  Field Coil will blow away the 98 db 10, for sure. But at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,
Is  it worth it? 
I have few recordings in my collection that would justify speading  that kind of cash on a  speaker.
The 10/98 db  will put my sound near the Mt Everest  peaks. Had I not invested the $1800 in the Thor upgrade, I'd be  there by now. 
Post removed 
Oh wow, you have actually listened to a pair of FR drivers. Congratulations. Please keep your diatribe within 100 words.