2. amps-preamps
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Pathos Classic One MkIII vs. Krell S-300i

How does one decide which amplifier they prefer?

For a little background, my system started with an Integra 50.1 receiver (still have).  My first amplifier upgrade was to add a Yaqin MC-30L integrated tube amplifier to my setup using a switch.  The Yaqin MC-30L was clearly an upgrade to the Integra, but also had a very similar sound.  My audio journey then took me to a Cambridge Audio Azur 840A that I simply never liked the sound of so to make a long story short I traded it in to a local audio shop and picked up a Pathos Classic One MkIII that I have really enjoyed.  The Pathos was once again a clear upgrade to the Yaqin and again had a similar sound.  From the Integra to the Yaqin to the Pathos there was never a question about which one sounded better because each seemed to simply be a better version of the previous one.

Enter the Krell S-300i that has really upset the balance of my audio world.  It's not unexpected, but the Krell and Pathos have very different sounds and very different sound stages.  The Pathos has more pronounced and clear highs and the Krell has more detailed bass (there is a bit of a mid-bass hump that isn't pleasing).  In line with the Fletcher Munson Curve, the Pathos sound better at low levels and the Krell starts to move ahead as the volume is increased.

Sometimes I wonder if the majority of my "dislike" for the Krell is simply that it sounds different than the sound that I've had as long as I've had my system.  There's some music where the Krell is absolutely superior and some that I clearly don't prefer it.  I think the Krell has allowed me to hear difference between Redbook and SACD that I've not heard before and I have greatly enjoyed the sound I get feeding it with the Integra through the home theater bypass feature.

My system is far from being setup ideally, over even well, but that's just the reality of living in a 1,400 sq-ft house.  I honestly believe that most of my gear is well above the setup making it somewhat pointless to try and really evaluate them.

I could keep both of the amplifier and have them both connected to my overall system, but they also represent funds that could be used to try out a new pieces of gear.

I realize that this is kind of an open ended question like ramble, but it's a new experience to truly not be able to pick a favorite.  In the few A/B tests my wife and kids tend to prefer the Pathos (they also prefer lower listening volumes which make sense) and the Pathos is clearly a better looking piece of gear (WAF), but the home theater bypass feature on the Krell allows it to be fully integrated and could eliminate the switch.

Anyone else have the experience of not being able to choose a clear favorite?
mceljo
alexatpos
1,209 posts
 
I have listened both amps (loan from friends) at my home, in my system and liked Pathos Classic much beter than Krell s 300. Of course, the krell has much more power, but even with decent gear (Burmester 001 cd player and SF Cremona Auditor M speakers) the overall sensation was like if somebody put the blanket over speakers. I have owned the Krell Kav 400 as well, it is a bit 'gray' sounding amp, but still much better than S 300. I would say that Krell makes fine amps, but not in that category.
As for Pathos Logos that you have mentioned, it is their worst sounding amp. I have owned Pathos Inpol 2, really nice sounding amp and its better than Classic (simillar type of sound, but bigger and wider stage, more details, etc), not to mention the Logos, but for the money neeed, I would say that there are better solutions than Inpol. Classic, however, is the sweet spot in their production
mceljo OP
1,357 posts
 
stereo5 - I would agree that the Pathos sounds fantastic at low volumes and honestly sounds great to my ears at just about any volume that I have interest in listening.  The biggest downside to the Pathos in my system is that it forces me to use a switch so that I can have my Focal speakers connected to my Integra for home theater and Pathos for stereo listening.  It's not really that complicated, but was a factor in trying out the Krell that has a home theater bypass.  The Pathos is still connected with the switch, so I have a lot of options at the moment.
mceljo OP
1,357 posts
 
alexatpos - I definately couldn't describe the Krell in my system that way though it does have an overall warmer sound than the Pathos.  The Krell seems to have a more visceral presence that some might say leads to toe tapping.  The other thing that sticks out is that it sounds more "black" to my ears which is the only way I know to describe the lack of noise.  This is something that has always impressed me with quality audio components and it's particularly noticeable when acting as the power amp for my Integra receiver, but I do hear the same qualities compared to the Pathos with some music.

I'm fairly certain that I could be happy with either and honestly don't have a pressing need to only have one other than simplicity appeals to me.  

I don't anticipate doing anything about it other than dreaming, but I'd love to hear the PS Audio Stellar GainCell DAC and Stellar S300 amplifier as it combines Class A analog with power and has a built-in DAC that would eliminate another component.  I'd be more tempted by the GainCell DAC if the Krell S-300i would allow for multiple home theater bypass inputs so that I could use the GainCell DAC and home theater receiver as sources.  I've never been around a pieces of PS Audio gear so have no idea if I'd like it or not, but it sounds great on paper :-)
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 
I wrote reviews of the Classic One (original) and MkIII for Dagogo.com

I did not invent the idea of "Pathi" (two units used in Mono), but reviewed it as such. A very nice improvement over single unit without faltering in terms of the lovely characteristics of the amp.

Having handled many amps, the Classic One has more midrange presence/emphasis than most others. It's quite different in that respect, and can be very appealing. The bass is driven a bit lightly, but with two units it is improved. If you love the single Classic One's character, then a second unit would most likely delight. 
mceljo OP
1,357 posts
 
douglas_schroeder - How exactly does it work to run two units?  What do the connections from the sources and to the speakers look like?
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