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The speaker/amplification wars continue

SET amplification vs PP amplification
High sens speakers vs ~`The INEFFICIENTS~~~
You might think this topic belongs over on amps room. Not at all. 
SET + High sens (91db-120db)
PP + Low sens = The Inefficients (below 91db)
Sunday I hope to get Richard Gray's 211 SET amp he builds in his shop.
This will be my 1st ever exp with SET amps, Not once have I heard a SET amp.
I know now what a  PP can do. 
I have various FR 91ish db speakers for testing.
Thinking it all over.
My only concern is classical music, Specifically full orchestra rocking N rolling. 
While listening to my Defy 7 6550, the orchestra is not separated, its all blended, like a  Louisiana Gumbo.
I'm guessing RG's 211 will bring  in details which a  PP amp just can't manage. 
I am not sure ,. just guessing here. Now all the YT vids on SET amps, have easy jazz, solo instruments, nothing complex whatsoever,. 
So obviously I will not test with my usual reference cds, Gatemouth Brown Gateswings, nor Sophie Milman. ,,well no actually we will start with Gatemouth, as his cd is high chaged with  thick stuff going on, Lets see ifa  211 can handle its business.
Next I will test the 211 witha  bunch of high quality classical, Rip Roaring full orchestra. 
Will tghe 211 pass with colors and separation and SLAM! or will the big bad boy go down in flames , all discobobulated and coughing its guts out.
Will post results. 
If SET wins, Defy is up on the auction block, actually ~buy now,/ships free~Going to takea hit on that one, as i have $1500 in upgrades, amp is from the early 2000'ish? . , amp hardly used, . Maybe 3-4 yrs  
mozartfan
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
ith respect to tube types in pushpull amps, I tend to like 6L6, KT66, EL34, and EL84 tubes over the likes of 6550, KT88, KT120 and KT150 tubes.


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Would have been nice had Jadis made the Defy to accept lower watt tubes, Richard always reminds me the Defy is a picky amp, and best not get experiemental..I had KT150's in the amp for a few days,, 
So yeah I'd like to try some KT66's, EL34's as  my plan is to add a  97 db FR speaker, running the Seas W18 87db as backup low end, 40-1500hz.
Someone here mentioned the lower watt EL34 would not make a dif in lowering output on the Defy, 
The Defy and 97 db  FR will just have to learn to get along with each other.
I will replace the  alps control on the Jadis DPL, at least I'll have a  better control on gain. The alps has 42 or 46 steps. 
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
Thinking about the unmeasurable distortion and incredible inner detail attracts me to SET. But then there are all these limitations and problems. Oh well. They do have a nice set of desirable qualities, for those willing and able to put up with the rest.

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This pretty much sums up what has been going on in my musings into the SET amps.
For that glorious midrange and upper highs, which can bea  surreal experience, 
Most of my classical has passages that are demanding  in gritty hz overload levels, Like Schnittke's symphonies, Pettersson, Elliott Carter, many passges that R&R.  
Requiring a  circuit that can  respond and recover with ease.

mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
Look I should be more clear about my set and future plans. 
When a nice gift of cash was given to me, I went straight to jadis used list here on Audiogon and saw the Defy. 
Done deal, 
Sold off the Jadis Orch Refer. 
Now the amp sat 10 yrs, as i had no cash fora  good preamp.
I was broke.
Only recently i had the Defy up N running, 
And now after cking out other speaker options, the high sens FR variety caught my attention.
Ordered a  few budget brands, and firgured the higher sesns FR variety is definetly superior to Seas Millennium midtweeter. 
Now that case is closed,.
Only by chance I found the Voxativ and now thats a done deal as well.
What I was doubting is the  matching of the PP witha  higher sens FR. 
Having experimented with various 91db FR, it looks like the much higher 97db will also be no major issue with the 100 watt PP.
The vol gain on the DPL linestage was no mkore than 9 oclock, and its that way with the 91db speaker.
With a  new higher quality alps ~41 steps~ this added  control in the  linestage gain,  will offer more flexibility in db output. 
The Defy is not at all needed fora  97db speaker, If I could do it all over, I;d have a   Cayin EL34 amp, the little guy., but more than enough power for a  97db speaker. And really offering close to  the Defy's performance.  ~~with $1500 mods~~~
Again this roundabouts back to my earlier proposition, that speakers are everything in a  system. 
$800 vs $5k, hardly tell them apart when hooked up to a  Class A high sens FR speaker.
This is what has  been on my mind lately.
 
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
$800 vs $5k, hardly tell them apart when hooked up to a Class A high sens FR speaker.


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Now why is this? How can a  $800 tube amp perform almost if not identical whena  trult non coloring high tech /fidelity speaker is in the room?
Old pros might be able to guess which is which ina  blind test, Most audiophiles will have to lucky guess.
The answer  is, due to the speaker voicing perfection , when testing is done at ow volume, Sure when you crank up each amp, then you will note one has the more bass slam and less distorion as gain goes higher.
There is not much to gain  between a cayin el34 amp, at $800 and my Deft KT88 at 75 pounds, when vol gain is low. 
The one will do the job almost as good as the other whena  high quality FR/high sens speaker is in the circuit. 
And at low voloume for small rooms, a  SET is not required on a  97db speaker. Any PP will be just fine. 
hshifi
572 posts
 
Hello,
Older coincidence speakers. The floor-standers are 14 ohms. These were my favorite speakers back in the day. I know these can be pushed with very little power via SET. This store I shop at has a used pair in their tube room hooked up to a pair of Cary 300Bs. One of the things holding me back from getting them is the color. They are light oak. I even thought about having them  refinished. https://holmaudio.com/product/coincidentsuper-eclipse-v2-towers/
I love the sound of these speakers. I believe they will ship stuff. If you are in the Chicagoland area you can check them out. 
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