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The speaker/amplification wars continue

SET amplification vs PP amplification
High sens speakers vs ~`The INEFFICIENTS~~~
You might think this topic belongs over on amps room. Not at all. 
SET + High sens (91db-120db)
PP + Low sens = The Inefficients (below 91db)
Sunday I hope to get Richard Gray's 211 SET amp he builds in his shop.
This will be my 1st ever exp with SET amps, Not once have I heard a SET amp.
I know now what a  PP can do. 
I have various FR 91ish db speakers for testing.
Thinking it all over.
My only concern is classical music, Specifically full orchestra rocking N rolling. 
While listening to my Defy 7 6550, the orchestra is not separated, its all blended, like a  Louisiana Gumbo.
I'm guessing RG's 211 will bring  in details which a  PP amp just can't manage. 
I am not sure ,. just guessing here. Now all the YT vids on SET amps, have easy jazz, solo instruments, nothing complex whatsoever,. 
So obviously I will not test with my usual reference cds, Gatemouth Brown Gateswings, nor Sophie Milman. ,,well no actually we will start with Gatemouth, as his cd is high chaged with  thick stuff going on, Lets see ifa  211 can handle its business.
Next I will test the 211 witha  bunch of high quality classical, Rip Roaring full orchestra. 
Will tghe 211 pass with colors and separation and SLAM! or will the big bad boy go down in flames , all discobobulated and coughing its guts out.
Will post results. 
If SET wins, Defy is up on the auction block, actually ~buy now,/ships free~Going to takea hit on that one, as i have $1500 in upgrades, amp is from the early 2000'ish? . , amp hardly used, . Maybe 3-4 yrs  
mozartfan
hshifi
572 posts
 
Hello, 
Yes, These say they are rated at 14 ohms. Also, the have side foreign woofers. They probably go down to 35hz at least. I also remember there is something about using the metal cones on
the drivers to reduce ringing. Above my head so I don’t understand. They do sound great being pushed very loud on 10 watt amps. They also were hooked up to a tiny 5watt integrated and sounded really good. Coincidence speakers have been around for over 20 years. I have Soliloquy 6.3i speakers that are also tube friendly just not as friendly as the Coincidence speakers. 
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,800 posts
 
ith respect to tube types in pushpull amps, I tend to like 6L6, KT66, EL34, and EL84 tubes over the likes of 6550, KT88, KT120 and KT150 tubes.
You might consider what push pull *triode* amps can do. Triodes are a lot more linear than pentodes and tetrodes.

mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
You might consider what push pull *triode* amps can do. Triodes are a lot more linear than pentodes and tetrodes.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Cayin EL34 *baby amp* has a switch for Triode and Ultra Linaer
I never understood what these 2 modes were, But I can say for triode you need a  higher sens speaker than the Thors at 87db.
I would guess each has  tube has their pluses over the other. 
From what i've heard the EL34 has a  superior midrange t vs the character of the KT88.
Honestly hard to say.
Richard Gray lent me  his Dynaco modded EL34  aka *The Baby Gray* and his Allan Organ monos with KT120's. 
I really found it hard to tell the dif twix my Defy KT88, EL34,  KT120, all sounded close, 
But was not done with extensive testing on  a  higher sens mid/tweeter.
A xover with midtweet dome lacks the sens to pick up subtle nuances, Which is why I got rid of the Millennium. 
The driver acting as mid/tweet has to be higher than 94db sens, or else it will not voice subtilities in the tube amplification. That is to say low sens speakers 93db lower, with their xovers and drivers, suck the life out the  tube.
For speakers with 93db lower, ss amps  make a   good match. 
I'm considering 93db as the cutoff point, perhaps 92db. 
Horns and high quality FR drivers start sens ratings at 96/07 db
The 93db-96db is sort of a  **No Man's land* in speakers.
There really are only 2 classes of sensitivity in speaker designs, 
Low vs high. 

Perhaps others here can detect differences in various tubes, but I had a hard time with the EL34, vs KT88 vs KT120. 
The subtilities were *Miniscule*
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,800 posts
 
I would guess each has tube has their pluses over the other.
That is correct. Triodes makes less power but are more linear (allowing them to sound better). Pentodes wired in triode (that switch to which you referred) aren't the same thing! Triode P-P amps are available in a variety of power levels.
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
That is correct. Triodes makes less power but are more linear (allowing them to sound better)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK Thanks for the explantion. I fliped the Ultra switch on the cayin EL34 baby amp back to Ultra, back to Triode,,, not sure what was what..
Then I realized the Triode sounded weaker.
Then something went out, took to a  Baton Rouge tech, he tested , all was OK, sold it off at a loss and thats that on Triode.
Triode mode can not produce slam when needed, as in Elliott Carter vocal work, Whats Next operetta.

For this opening requires KT88 in full PP mode.

If only you guys could hear these W18's working in real time.
Kettle drums go ~~BOOMMMMM~~
Subs? Not necessary


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NjOpVpFy20&t=210s
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