So you think wire conductors in cables are directional? Think again...

andy21,320 posts05-21-2021 9:51pmAhem .... I got something the objectivists can chew on. Given the complexity, this will probably take them some times. Unless, djones et al ... can possess sonar capability, hearing by itself is not going to give you accurate localization.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2674475/

The visual and auditory systems frequently work together to facilitate the identification and localization of objects and events in the external world. Experience plays a critical role in establishing and maintaining congruent visual–auditory associations, so that the different sensory cues associated with targets that can be both seen and heard are synthesized appropriately. For stimulus location, visual information is normally more accurate and reliable and provides a reference for calibrating the perception of auditory space. During development, vision plays a key role in aligning neural representations of space in the brain, as revealed by the dramatic changes produced in auditory responses when visual inputs are altered, and is used throughout life to resolve short-term spatial conflicts between these modalities. However, accurate, and even supra-normal, auditory localization abilities can be achieved in the absence of vision, and the capacity of the mature brain to relearn to localize sound in the presence of substantially altered auditory spatial cues does not require visuomotor feedback. Thus, while vision is normally used to coordinate information across the senses, the neural circuits responsible for spatial hearing can be recalibrated in a vision-independent fashion. Nevertheless, early multisensory experience appears to be crucial for the emergence of an ability to match signals from different sensory modalities and therefore for the outcome of audiovisual-based rehabilitation of deaf patients in whom hearing has been restored by cochlear implantation.

Ahem...I guess you did read the first paragraph of the link I posted above.

Within 2 degrees. Pretty darn accurate with using your eyes.

"The brain has an amazing ability to identify the source of sounds around you. When driving, you can tell where an approaching fire truck is coming from and pull over accordingly. In the classic swimming pool game of “Marco Polo,” the player who is “it” swims toward the players who says “Polo.” In the field of neuroscience, this ability is called sound localization. Humans can locate the source of a sound with extreme precision (within 2 degrees of space)! This remarkable feat is accomplished by the brain’s ability to interpret the information from both ears. So how does your brain do it?"

Without using your eyes. Too late to edit.

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Music for example is not reducible to physical acoustic sorry if you dont know that ....

I don’t even know what this means. If you’re claiming music is not reducible to physical soundwaves you’re wrong.

The rest of your post deals with 2. Human perception of sound.

This thread is about 1. Sound and can it be measured and scientifically tested as to be audibly different according to direction of the conductor. Yes, it can.

I find most of what you post not only wrong but demonstrably wrong. You wander off into areas not relevant to the question trying to prove your dogmatic opinion about not only how sound propagates but how humans perceive sound. The above comment about music isn't soundwaves if I'm deciphering you correctly is laughable. 

I'll quit referencing you in my posts please reciprocate.

djones51

It’s pretty simple , except for little Andy ...

Your little insults do nothing to further your little arguments.

... if you claim to hear differences in cables based on direction, prove it, and proof isn’t me and my buddies tried last weekend. It needs to be a properly controlled blind test.

That is complete nonsense. And we’ve been through this before.

This is a hobbyist’s group, not a scientific forum. No one here owes you proof of anything, ever. If you want others to supply "scientific proof" to suit your sensibilities and listening tests conducted to your specifications, you are in the wrong forum.

So please stop your incessant demands for something that apparently no one here has any intention of providing to you.

Ahem .... I got something the objectivists can chew on. Given the complexity, this will probably take them some times. Unless, djones et al ... can possess sonar capability, hearing by itself is not going to give you accurate localization.

Funny thing is there are numerous examples of people having something very much akin to sonar. It generally is referred to as echolocation, and has been the focus of some experiments/studies, scientific-like and everything ( they probably even use voltmeters and stuff ).

One of the most interesting take-a-ways is that in folks who are really adept at echolocation acoustic information is to an interesting extent processed by the part of the brain usually reserved for visual processing ( which kinda sorta means they see with their ears !? )....

And just taking a wee leap sideways from that ....wonder how this process to develop the ability to use echolocation ( like we all have it though some folks have developed a greater ability in that area...blind people, for obvious reasons...) intersects with the learned ability among some in the audiophile community to play the imaging game with our systems ( which requires, at a minimum, good ears,a well sorted system/acoustic environment, ability to focus attention to acoustic cues/detail, and some imagination to make the leap from purely visual/acoustic data processing to some combination thereof that results in imaging...) ...

Bottom line it may well be we all have the ability to play sonar games and we often do when we sit in front of our systems and get blown away by the imaging...

Cheers