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High expectations when listening to an orchestra

If you listen to an orchestra and expect to hear the real thing, you’re certain to be disappointed.
There’s no way you can come close to that experience  with your equipment.  An orchestra in your listening space is an impossibility. Therefore you have to adopt a “suspension of disbelief.”  In other words, trick yourself into believing it’s the real  thing.  You have to bring your imagination to the equation.
The degree to which you can suspend your disbelief, will determine how much enjoyment you get.
Of course, the better the quality of your equipment, the closer you will come.
With lesser forces than an orchestra, such as a few instruments or solo instrument or voice, the easier it becomes to approach reality.
rvpiano
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Know just what you mean. For years and years I had this habit of some time during a show get up and walk around checking out how it sounds in different locations. Started young, thought next time I will know where to sit. Dumb kid, like everything isn’t completely different each time! But then even after I figured that out it was still interesting to hear the differences. All these thousands of people paying big money, and some of them getting pure crap for sound.

One time, Steely Dan at The Gorge a beautiful outdoor venue on the Columbia River, was some of the most atrocious sound I ever heard! In some places. In others it was quite good. The sound guys were set up on a big platform dead center in front of the stage about 1/3 of the way back. I went and stood as close to them as I could get. Within maybe 10 feet of where they were standing in front of their big console.

The sound from there was the best I ever heard at a show! Audiophiles love to argue about soundstage being fake. Let me tell you, those guys had to be mixing for it because the sound there was total holo-3D! Rich and full and dynamic and smooth and balanced, everything you want it to be. For them. For the paying schlubs, some of them were treated to screechy dreck so bad I do not for the life of me know how they sit there and take it. But from the sweet spot, damn!

Years later I went to see the Eagles. This time there was no good seat. There was no good sound. I was in the bathroom getting tissue to shove in my ears. At some point they fixed something and the sound went to almost okay. But this is where we get to the thing about live music: It was the Eagles. Don Henley, Joe Walsh, Glenn Frey.... and I never saw them before and let me tell you that much talent produces a vibe and you feel it and for the first time in my life it was like who the f--k cares about the sound it’s the fricken Eagles!
frogman
7,506 posts
 
**** and let me tell you that much talent produces a vibe and you feel it and for the first time in my life it was like who the f--k cares about the sound it’s the fricken ..... ****
Yup!
frogman
7,506 posts
 
Correct (natural) instrumental timbre and micro dynamics are the two aspects of reproduced orchestral sound most important for me. Putting those aside, one of the most commonly cited problems with reproduced orchestral sound is the inability of sound systems to reproduce the grand scale /size and power of an orchestra going full tilt. Of course, a large part of the blame needs to be placed on the limitations of most listening rooms’ acoustic capabilities; this, due to size, dimensions and/or poor treatment. Some of the resulting distortions of realistic sound staging have been described in the posts here.

It has always been interesting to me that the most realistic renderings of orchestral sound staging and the RELATIVE sense of orchestral power has been from sound systems that present the recording on a smaller scale. In most average sized audiophile listening environments, it is the smaller systems, those that give a mid to rear of the hall perspective that seem to create the most realistic illusions of orchestral scale and placement (side/side and front/back) of instruments. Some systems with speakers that may be too large for the room seem to create individual instrumental images that are too large within the size of the overall acoustic presented; with the result being a feeling of instrumental sections and individual instruments sounding crowded and without enough (natural) space/air between them. This creates a feeling of a kind of acoustic overload independent of volume level. Worse still, it can damage the music. Orchestral music in particular is conceived by composers with the blending of individual orchestral colors very much in mind. Instrumental sounds need to travel some distance to the ear before the individual timbres blend correctly to essentially create a new sound. I am not sure why, but the obvious negative effects of of mic placement which is often too up close seems to be compensated for to at least some degree by speakers that are appropriately sized, or have appropriate dispersion characteristics for a given room. ,

This is one of the reasons that why I love my Stax F-81 electrostatics so much and am willing to live with their limitations in the available volume and bass power departments. Very realistic and detailed mid hall rendering of soundstage and much smaller scale than my Maggie’s and, most important to me, extremely natural midrange and top end.
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