2. speakers
  3. 166005-136265

Speakers The single most critical component

I know we've been over this Q hundreds of X's over the past 20 years here on audion, You can find dozen of topics dealing with this Q <which is the ,,,,most important component...>>
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system. 
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me  , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires  some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter)  in  the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity. 
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity  single drivers. 
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style  aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs. 
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic. 
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
 a  kt88 in brand X will sound  close to brand Y. 
So amplification takes a  distant 2nd place in critical component.  No need to break the bank buying amp A vs  a  lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all  tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound  close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is  only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
 the Shanling
only a  miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17. 
Now as for  best source  , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds. 
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy. 
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where  the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity  voicing  issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker  you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years, 
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances. 
To sum up, a  ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver. 
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity. 

mozartfan
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
WEll I agree, the OP is not very well expressed, just a  jumble of ideas, more about opening questions, new thoughts /ideas.
You will find the majority here agree, speakers is the vocal chords of the system.
What I am learning over the past few weeks testing out different drivers and FR speakers, is this : speakers are indeed the critical component, and sensitivity is the critical spec that should be conisdered  at the 1st. 
IMO, go directly to sens rating. 
We all want huge soundstage, details,  very low coloration/distortion, etc etc. 
A speaker with average sens = 92db/below, might acheive some of these  distinctive qualities, then again, might not. 
Whereas a  higher sens, 94db+ might not only  acheive these characteristics, but  voice them in a  way a  lower sens speaker   has no chance  in the same degree.
Lately the only spec i look at is sens. 
If the sens is 94 db, its up for consideration. 
Some of the lower grade FR small cone drivers I've been testing lately are rated 91db and perform as such = rejects. 
Also buyer beware, some FR/Ribbon/ etc drivers will show specs that might very well be *spiked*, Seriously consider subtracting 2db from many if not all the so called *FR* drivers comming out of china. China is pumping the sens rating, in order to gain more sales. \
No big surprise there.
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
One other observation about these new *Full range* speakers, is that they are more about *midrange*. The low bass is a  bit rolled off, the highs are definetly rolled off. 
Which to me is  not a   big issue. AS 90%+ of the fq's in my classical music falls in this critcal  fq zone.
I can esaily add bass and highs. 
So to sum  the many discoveries made these past few months
A) Speakers Most critical
B) Sensitivity most critical
C) Midrange most critical. 
Only via these 3 ingredients can true high fidelity enter into your system. 
All else is fluff, if not The Hype.

mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 

audition__audio849 posts05-24-2021 11:01amI dont think the OP had any motive other than some cathartic brain dump.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My topic has the most views here on audiogon as far as new  threads. 
For a  reason
many here know i have some 40 years exp in audio, and trust some of the new developments/new discoveries I've made these past few months, experimenting with various speakers. 

If you don't have something of value to add to the open fair, honest discussion, best just to stay on the sidelines and  learn something.
audition__audio
1,477 posts
 
Certainly one thing I could learn from you is how not to communicate. I also could learn how not to present a discovery if I wanted it to be taken seriously. Far too many definitive statements, far too many generalizations and a grand oversimplification of something which is very complex. I dont disagree with your basic premise, just much of what  you puked after the title of the OP. I think some basic advice on presentation is very constructive. I mean it really wasnt a discussion just you monologuing. 


Ag insider logo xs@2x
lonemountain
450 posts
 
Mozart fan
I think reducing an evaluation down to one aspect - efficiency- of the many issues to consider is not the idea. Its like saying you'll only consider a car that gets over X miles per gallon as a proper car.  What if you want a sports car?  Or if you want a truck to haul things?  Different motors, different efficiencies.  Efficiency is NOT the only thing that matters in engines or drivers. 

From product management experience at JBL and with ATC, a driver can be optimized for bandwidth OR efficiency.  If you want more low end from a driver, it WILL be less efficient.   IF you are willing to forgo some low end, you can go for efficiency.

I know for example ATC SCM19/20 systems average 87dB SPL 1w/1m.    In its sealed box, that 7 inch SL driver has response down to 30-40 hz.  Why give up this low end for a higher efficiency when amp power is so affordable these days?  Its not like the old horn days, where a 70W amp was about as large as they get (at least in tube power amps).  

Brad        
More to discover