I finally added a second REL Sub

"I run them so low on crossover and volume that the only thing you hear is sweeter more extended highs against a fuller picture down low.  They are simply not audible in their own right"  ....If i read this correctly your setup is wrong.If you watch the Rel user setup video its explained the sub should cross right under yoir speakers drop off point to make a seemless transition,not set all the way down as you descibe.I suggest trying it the right way and see what you have

I agree, such a novice approach. Seems like it has nothing to do with the speakers, just integrating the subs to the room a bit. CW has 15" woofer (34hz), and adding 2 10" woofers (28 hz) isn't that big of a deal if you're low on crossover and volume. Doesn't sound like there's much room gain with this approach. You could probably get the same low frequency with the CW using better placement in the room.

What's the point without using measurements to justify the setup (ie REW)? Please don't use the my ear is better excuse, because it isn't.

I'm sure you like and enjoy what you're hearing with the 2 subs, but how much better could it be? At least with measurements you can actually know for certain what the differences are (positive or negative).

Seems like much gets lost in translation.  I do follow the REL method--nearly to spec.  But, even REL recommends fine tuning. What I was saying is that I do the fine tuning by ear listing to actual tracks with actual instruments--i.e. isolated kick drum, isolated stand up bass, and so on.  Then, I also listen to a group setting of those same type of instruments--sometimes the same track where things get busier.  

I tried DSP, mics and software.  Helpful for sure, but I didn't feel it was necessary to get into the very sweetest spot of linking it all together.  Wh


I've owned the CWIVs for 6 months and have experimented with all sorts of placement options, so at this point I'm confident that I cannot get the same low frequency with the CWIV through different position.  Actually, they are not bass monger designs in the first place.  And further, if I try to position them differently I surely can "up" the bass, but that position is not ideal as other things suffer.  

There's more than one way to skin a cat I suppose.  I'm smoking some ribs today.  In nearly all circles, cooking ribs fast is nuts and not appropriate.  I would never do it. But, there are experts who do and there are experts who don't who have tasted fast cook ribs and applaud them.  

I guess I just haven't found measurements as a panacea.  I built a handful of tube amps and a pretty involved preamp design.  Testing was important and shouldn't be ignored.  But just because it tests near perfect doesn't mean (TO ME) that it sounds better.  

Tuning a guitar by ear in seconds took years to master.  I can do it and meet 440hz spec.  With all humility, I'm not saying my ear is as good as a machine.   I also enjoy it. 

Here's to enjoying the journey!

What I'm saying is that I (or you) could buy a couple of no name brand 8" subwoofers and do the exact same thing. There is nothing musical to how you have these set up in your room. You mention sub bass, sorry that starts at 20Hz, these subs only go down to 28Hz. These are HT subs, so by your own words are not musical. The volume is so low, where's the music?

I just don't see what you're doing is anything to cause someone to create a thread about. As I said before, any novice can do what you did, except you spent $3k (list price), that could have been done for $300.00.

Personally, I'm more interested in here's a before and after thread - show us something interesting. 

I’m using two Velodyne HGS-15s to supplement KEF Reference 1s below 80 Hz. LR output from an Ayre KX-5/20 preamp goes to a SMS-1 bass manager that provides acoustic room correction for the HGS-15s. The sound is superb, never aware of the individual speakers.

Now for complications: I have a third HGS-15 and three HGS-10s. It’s been suggested that I use LFE from a Bryson SP3 processor I use for surround (front LR through Ayre by-pass) to the third HGS-15. I could use a second SMS-1 in pass-through mode to the three HGS-15 as a distributed setup.

I had a passive balanced 80 Hz 24 db high-pass filter built to insert between the Ayre preamp and amp, but it seemed to remove just a bit of the sense of air, so I haven’t been using it.

Advice about the subs and/or high-pass would be appreciated.