2. amps-preamps
  3. 167319-38929

Parasound A21+ vs MF M8 500S vs Cary 200.2 ES vs Hegel H20

Whilst in COVID lockdown I've been considering the next step for my system. 

I've been running a Herron VTSP-3 tube pre-amp into a Rogue ST100 tube amp for a while and whilst it has beautiful tone, timbre, density and the performers appear in front of me, I feel like it is a little smoothed over and lacking in excitement and dynamics. It needs a touch more air, liveliness and punch.

I tried a CJ CA200 (185wpc) integrated and a Kinki EX-M1 (215wpc) integrated and they both brought excitement and dynamics to the presentation but the CJ was faulty and was returned to the seller and the Kinki sounded just a touch dry to me (I upgraded the opamps which helped but it somehow sounded harmonically incomplete or overdamped and I couldn't ignore this when listening). Surprisingly, I didn't miss the tubes although both my pre-amp and amp sound pretty neutral and not typically tubey.

Although my speakers, Silverline Sonata III's, are rated an easy 93db sensitivity and 8ohm (+/- 10%) impedance, the extra power of the two integrated amps I tried really seemed to bring them to life. So, I'm thinking that if I keep the tube pre-amp but replace the Rogue ST100 (60wpc in Triode mode and 100wpc in Ultralinear mode) with a solid state power amp that's around 200wpc+ into 8 ohms, it might get me to where I want to be.

Obviously taking the candidate power amps home for trial would be ideal but this would be very difficult logistically, plus I will probably want to buy used in order to be able to afford the quality I'm after. Buying, trying and selling a number of amps is not something that would be readily tolerated by my wife who, although tolerant of my audio obsession has her limits.

So, if anyone has compared these amps, especially directly against each other, I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts as to their relative strengths and weaknesses. 

dkerr
dkerr OP
22 posts
 
So you feel the Rogue ST100 lacks "excitement"! Get a Crown XLS 1502. Plenty of power - and lots of Class D "excitement"! $449!

Thanks jasonbourne52, a bargain would be great but from my reading the Crown is great value for money but doesn't play at this level.

dkerr OP
22 posts
 
There’s a McCormack DNA 0.5 with Steve McCormack’s Ultra mods on US AudioMart for $2000.  Jump on it!  And you can have Steve do even further mods down the road if you want even more or ever get the itch. 

Thanks Soix. 

In order not to make the OP even longer, I didn't mention that I'm actually in Oz and am looking at the amps mentioned because they are more readily available here and I could probably get to hear one (though perhaps not in my system) before buying. Buying on Audiogon or US AudioMart is possible but would need to be 240v (or switchable).

Have you compared the DNA to any of the amps I shortlisted?




unison77
50 posts
 
Your observations on  Silverline Sonata III's are a bit odd to me: I also own these speakers (though I listen to a different pair now) and I've paied with with a Cary SLI-80 integrated (85wpc in the UL mode, as claimed by the manufacturer), a 12wpc Chinese SE amplifier powered with EL-34 tubes, a vintage Sansui AU-517 integrated amp (65wpc), as well as restored vintage Eico HF-81 and ST-40 integrated amps, and each of them sounds great with Sonatas. My listening room is small (I don't remember its exact size),so the power is enough for it even if I listen late at night at low volumes. Does changing speaker placement, cables and other tweaks help? 
Post removed 
dkerr OP
22 posts
 
Thanks guys,

My room is larger at about 19x22x8 and the corner behind the listener's right shoulder is open to a long hallway and an open staircase. Speakers are 9' apart and I sit 12' from each speaker. Speakers are toed in half way between straight-ahead and at-the-listener and over the years I've found this to be the best setup. Baffles are approx 4' from the wall behind and the wall is 4' behind my head. Room is acoustically treated and nicely balanced. I don't listen to metal or at ear bleed levels but like to listen at a volume that gives the impression of a live performance.

I should emphasize that I'm not looking for a paradigm shift in the sound, we are talking fine tuning here. The current setup sounds great and 3D and organic etc but the higher powered solid state integrated amps I mentioned brought the system "alive" with more zest and vigour. The current system sounds slightly polite in comparison.

I'm just seeking a little more zest, sparkle, punch and slam. Imaging is already fine but I feel like I'm "seeing" the live performers in the room in front of me (i.e. from speakers back) but I'm not quite feeling immersed in the live performance. Sorry, I'm not sure how to explain this better.

I'm not sure if it was the higher current provided by those higher powered SS amps that "woke the system up" or a more extended top end or both. It is almost like the system is too polished and needs a little edge or crisper leading edges.

Tvad - You may be right about the Pass amps as they may provide higher current than my Rogue and perhaps greater transparency. But, I don't want a physically big, industrial looking and hot amp (it is not a dedicated music room or man cave). Many years ago I had a Plinius SA100 mk3 amp, but not with these speakers. It would have been interesting to hear it with these speakers although it too was big, hot and ugly.

Unison77 - you have obviously used a range of tube amps with these speakers and apparently not suffered the "politeness" issue that I'm trying to address. This makes me wonder whether I should try to borrow another pre-amp to discount it as being the culprit (although I recently re-tubed it) as I've used it for about 10 years now.

I know the speakers are fine as they came alive with zing and punch with the higher powered SS amps. 

I appreciate your input, please keep it coming.













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