2. analog
  3. 155603-92835

2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated. 

It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.

It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter  and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency. 

The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?

Cheers!
ledoux1238
lbelchev
64 posts
 
Low INERTIA is very very different from low TORQUE!

You can check: HIGH TORQUE MOTORS WITH LOW INERTIA :-)

"First of all, it is "low inertia" motor. In the case of Philips unit, that term refers to a very special technology. In "low inertia" motor, the turning part-the rotor-consist of a cooper coil, the turns almost parallel to the rotation axle cutting the field lines of the magnetic circuit, excited by a permanent magnet which is totally fixed. The weight of the rotor is reduced as much as possible, so the inertial tendency is small relative to the work provided by the motor."
J.C.Verdier

We can see this brilliant principle in 2020 - CS Port Analog Disk Player LFT1 (£48,000.00): "In LFT 1, the rotation control is not performed, and the constant speed rotation is left to the high moment of inertia of the 27 kg platter, creating a rotation free from unnecessary vibration caused by the control. Only the positive direction force is applied from the motor, but by using a coreless motor with LESS MOMENT OF INERTIA, the influence of the vibration is reduced."

pani
1,215 posts
 
Thank you @Ibelchev , I get your point.
The sonic difference between the Philips and Maxon was not much but I wanted a more powerful motor since I intended to try the flywheel experiment.  
lewm
12,568 posts
 
Compared to the inertia of the platter (57kg!!!), I would think the inertia of the drive motor is trivial, regardless of its type or construction. Anyway, wouldn’t the inertia of the motor ADD to the speed constancy rather than subtract as the text implies? Maybe someone is conflating inertia with friction.
ledoux1238 OP
276 posts
 
@lewm 
A slight correction on the platter weight, it is 18 kg. 

It seems that  'high torque, low inertia' is a very common motor type. The low inertia refers to the non-moving part of the motor. And it is characterized by an ability to start and stop quickly. A 'high inertia' motor does the opposite, start and stop slowly and tends to be of the servo type. I believe even the Maxon that @Pani used is a high torque low inertia type. 

The motor / thread drive choice for the Verdier is best explained, as @lbelchev mentioned, by the CS Port literature: allowing the inertia of the heavy platter ( 16 kg ) to maintain speed stability without the use of a servo ( high inertia ) motor. In the case of the the La Platine, oil applied to the spindle provides a corrective force / brake to counter stylus drag. 

@Pani
Thank you for the additional information on improving the motor with DC conversion. From the Youtube link you attached, I notice the nice custom motor. That is the Maxon, I presume? The pitch of harpsichord from the clip sounds, frankly, good to me, even though one should not infer too much from the sonics of Youtube.

I still am quite struck by the reasoning of your conversion to an idler drive. The sound from the Lenco sounds more right to you, or that coming from the Verdier thread drive sounded wrong. 

@lewm
I know you have many turntables, mostly DD if I am not mistaken. Is the preference due to something fundamentally 'off' from the belt drive format?


pani
1,215 posts
 
@ledoux, that youtube video was to tell you how far people have gone to tweak the Verdier. I did not get to that point because that would have meant usage of a tape drive (like in the video) with appropriate modification to the motor capstan and also the flywheel in that video is a very expensive one designed by the person himself. Yes, it sounds very good after all these mods.

The sound of the idler to me is simply superior to many belt drives I have heard (including Verdier). The issue with idlers is to find a well done TT which is low noise and high resolution. In that respect a Nantais Lenco or a Shindo Garrard is very well done with all the qualities of idler (speed, dynamics & flow) with a very low noise floor.
More to discover