Upper Level Vintage DD Strenghts and Weaknesses


All of these tables have been discussed in some form or another here over the years. I have read quite a few threads on them, but its a bit difficult to nail this point down.

Basically I am looking for a non-suspended table to install a Dynavector DV505 arm on, and these tables can fit the bill.

The most widely available is a Denon DP 75 or DP 80 in a Denon plinth, and they are perhaps the most affordable also. Are there any of their plinths that are desirable, or are they just a veneered stack of MDF or plywood?

While more expensive I can find a Sony TTS8000 in a Resinamic plinth although shipping from HK is expensive. There is one thread I came across here where a member who restores tables says two of the three TTS8000 he has done had play in the spindle assembly which looked to be wear in the brass bushings of the motor. That does make me pause in concern.

The JVC TT101 is not only difficult to find, its apparently a bit of a bear to get serviced, so its not high on the list.

The Technics SP 10 MK II I have owned, and its a nice table but to be honest I had a Denon DP75 that I felt actually sounded better. Also the models that are out there are either abused or have a premium price tag attached to them. Also I don’t need instant torque, and I think the bi-servo designs might offer better speed control.

As I write this the Denon and Sony seem to be at the top of the list, unless there is another I should be looking at.
neonknight
It looks like your plan has a Solid Foundation from experiences enjoyed.
The acquisition of a TT built with today's technologies, that has been a inspiration in the past, is surely an exciting venture.
This is a approach, I seem to get caught up in, investigating and pursuing using modern technologies on TT's.  

Very much looking forward to your user evaluations when you are ready to report on them.
Picked up an Ortofon MC200. Has a fine line stylus, boron cantilever, samarium cobalt ring magnet, and Ortofons WRD damping system. Output is low...


Do you like it?
It's Concorde MC200 ?  

Rare model, most people forgot the Concorde was an MC and not for DJs :) Because later the Concorde MM became the most significant model and the best seller (but not for audiophiles) on professional market. 
@chakster 

This is the Ortofon MC200U, which is the 1/2 inch version. They did make one with an integrated head shell. This integrated design also was sold under the Concorde name, and they had a T4P version called the CMC I believe. The one I have looks like the OM body cartridge, but its silver and has a non user replicable stylus. 

This is a cartridge I have owned before. I remember thinking it was respectable but not really a wow moment. But I wanted a cartridge for casual listening to keep the hours off my main cartridge so I grabbed this one again. I installed it on a Zupreme headshell with stock cartridge wires, and while this is probably too much mass for it, its what I had at the time. I think I will order a carbon fiber head shell to use with this cartridge. I got the pleasant but a bit unexciting presentation, and I also had a bit of low level hum. So I swapped in some silver litz cartridge wires I had recently bought, and that did the trick. No noise, and more open presentation. I am enjoying this cartridge, and even as we speak its playing at this moment. The sound is interesting, its somewhat effortless with good flow, a bit fuller than many modern cartridges, but still well detailed but the truth is its not as resolving as my ZYX or Transfiguration. But this cartridge is just meant for casual listening, and one where i will use the hours up and then send it as a trial to a new retipper to see what he is capable of. 

This led me down memory lane and thinking about the vintage moving coils I have liked in the past, and in some ways wish I still had here. I enjoy listening to the Denon 103M which reminds me a lot of the Denon DL304. But the output voltage is .12 mV, and also the Fidelity Research MC202 with an output voltage of .13 mV. These are tough output voltages to work with, but I wonder if the low number of coil windings is what contributes to the wonderful sound of those cartridges. At that time you likely had to use step up transformers. In my case I have an Esoteric E-03 phono stage that can handle those low voltages. I prefer the sound of an active phono stage over a two piece set up using a SUT in the first gain stage. 

The Ortofon MC200 is even worse with an output voltage of .09 mV. But it uses some pretty snazzy technology for a cartridge this age. Boron cantilever, fine line nude (line contact) stylus, samarium cobalt ring magnet, and Ortofons WRD damping system which is still found on their higher level cartridges today.

So all in all its a nice cartridge, and I am getting very good sound and I bought it very inexpensively. 

The one I have looks like the OM body cartridge, but its silver and has a non user replicable stylus.

So it’s like this, but without replaceable stylus?
Here is the specs for "U"

Interesting that these type of cartridges were popular back then, so many manufacturers made "OM-alike" design, but most of them were MM.

SONY made an MC-1 and MC-3 with, but my personal favorite are MM XL-50 with Boron Pipe (and very rare XL-70 with Sapphire cantilever). I was lucky to find a few NOS samples of XL-50, now I hope to replace my XL-70 with NOS unit. 

Accutex (Azden) cartridges have the same "OM-alike" design.

Stanton and Pickering also made something similar.


The Ortofon MC200 is even worse with an output voltage of .09 mV. But it uses some pretty snazzy technology for a cartridge this age. Boron cantilever, fine line nude (line contact) stylus, samarium cobalt ring magnet, and Ortofons WRD damping system which is still found on their higher level cartridges today.

I never tried Concorde or OM MC200, but I have Ortofon MC2000 with terribly low output too, and all the advanced technology of that age. MC2000 is completely different from MC200.


the Fidelity Research MC202 with an output voltage of .13 mV. These are tough output voltages to work with, but I wonder if the low number of coil windings is what contributes to the wonderful sound of those cartridges. At that time you likely had to use step up transformers. In my case I have an Esoteric E-03 phono stage that can handle those low voltages.

Besides the FR best 7f and 7fz, I enjoyed PMC-3 and now discovered the MCX-3 designed by Ozawa (now Shelter) which I posted in FR dedicated thread recently.





Vintage cartridges really isn't my thing, nor is owning a couple dozen of them. I only have one system and a limit of three turntables. So I need 4 or 5 cartridges at the most. The MC200 is meant to be a casual listening cartridge as I have a lot of music on vinyl that is not duplicated in my digital collection. Yes I can stream but I find my vinyl sounds better. I paid $105 shipped for the MC200 and I will use up the hours in the diamond and then send it off to a retipper who claims he can replace a diamond on stock cantilever and get factory quality alignment. We will see, this is a good test mule for that. 

The sound is fundamentally different than current Ortofon cartridges. I believe when CD came out manufacturers had a different target for voicing with their new designs. This cartridge comes from the pre CD era so it does present music differently, and its a nice change of pace to have. Perhaps I will acquire another vintage cartridge at some time, I have always wanted to own one of the Kiseki or perhaps a Shinon. 

Actually who knows what the future holds. My system is pretty well done as I have three good tables and I only run one audio system and the gear I got is long term keepers. So maybe i will end up exploring vintage MC cartridges.