2. amps-preamps
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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
viber6
2,451 posts
 
chazzzy, kren,

You (chazzzy) are a great person, not just in audio.  I learned much from you.  You have the nobility to apologize for any past negativity you had towards me, although I didn't get too worked up over that, because you were not over-the-top disrespectful like kren.  What really makes you noble is your willingness to change your mind when new evidence is presented to you.  You have an open mind, unlike kren.  You listened carefully and repeatedly and changed your preferences according to the evidence of your ears, without bias or preconceived notions.  In fairness, Kren did the same, which is good.  But the evidence that you saw that I listen carefully and competently led you to develop a newfound respect for me and my views.  Kren has yet to admit that his choice of words WAS hostile ("you don't know what you're talking about" etc, etc) and continues to be demeaning towards me, even indirectly when he just said, "If someone has a lifetime of musical training yet their audio assessments are infantile, then the musical training helps them play their instrument but doesn’t help them assess audio any more than it helps them dunk a basketball. Speaking generally here not about anyone in particular."  INFANTILE--is that appropriate?  NOT ABOUT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR--what a falsehood--it is clear you mean ME.

Kren, you suggested that we agree to disagree.  That is a good idea only if certain conditions are met.  The main one is mutual respect, avoidance of negativity towards each other.  For example, Dave (thezaks) has completely different preferences than I.  But he has been supportive of my right to voice my objective findings here without sneering attitudes from others who disagree with my assertions.  In Dave's own head, he disagrees with my preferences, and he would not consider the equipment I like for his own enjoyment.  Fine with me.  Our relationship is truly a great example of agreeing to disagree while maintaining mutual respect.  If I came to his home and listened to his home theater system, I would enjoy his system and the experience of being with him.  Well, maybe I wouldn't enjoy his system much in my own mind, but I would be in a great frame of mind because he is a great guy and I would find something to enjoy and would praise him for it.

So in the future, Kren, please, no direct or implied negativity towards me.  I never initiated anything against you, but my negativity towards you was only in response to yours.  If you object to any advice I may give Jay or anyone else, don't say that nobody wants to hear it and I should get outta here and write my own thread.  That would be the scalding and scolding imposition of your own views, a kind of censorship, the very thing that you criticize me for when you claim that I scold people who have other preferences. How do you know that there is nobody interested in what I say?  That's for them to decide for themselves.  Good people who disagree with me can ignore me, scroll down and not respond, or if they want to say something, they do so respectfully without negativity.  Ron17 is a great example of that.

If you agree to these conditions, we can coexist here.  But otherwise, a statement that we agree to disagree is merely a license for you to continue to show your negativity towards me.  Most international wars are due to this excuse that the countries agree to disagree.  So what--they carry on with mutual destruction because they don't respect each other.

Chazzzy, wise statement from you--"Too much hardship in 2020. Too much acrimony on this thread."   
viber6
2,451 posts
 
Jay,
Yes, thanks for your efforts which have been entertaining throughout these tough times.  But most entertainment is just transitory fluff, except for the rare great ones like Seinfeld, Fraser, Jackie Gleason.  You have offered shootouts and commentary of GREAT value, which will become classics like those great entertainers.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Viber,
I’m a straight shooter and I’ll be honest. I think your views on audio are fringe and so freakishly outside the norm that they are near worthless. That’s my personal view. I know that offends you, but that is my opinion. 

You continually reinforce that opinion by what you post. 

That doesn’t mean I think you are a bad guy or that you don’t add value to the thread. It’s not personal. Rather it’s based on your audio assessments and the way you present them. As I said, you provide the evidence. 

I’m not going to lie and pretend differently about how I view your audio assessments or the audio notions you promote. 

And I am not claiming to be any sort of expert and it’s only one person’s opinion.  It’s WC’s thread, not a contest to be liked by as many as possible 
rsf507
2,332 posts
 
Nicely said @kren0006
viber6
2,451 posts
 
kren0006,
Let's be objective and honest.  Yes, my views on audio are fringe and freakishly outside the norm.  But they are not worthless to some people who realize that I know what I am talking about.   I am glad chazzzy came around to value my insights.  Electrostatic speakers are enjoyed by only a few, certainly not mainstream a-philes.  There are some people like me who value clarity above all else, and are willing to compromise bass power and extension.  You are right that most people on this thread have your preferences rather than mine.  That doesn't make my views WORTHLESS.  That word is still another of your many words with a negative connotation that show that you either do not recognize nor care about your own hostility and negativity towards me.  You don't admit to the truth of anything I said in my last long post, whereas I can agree with you to a certain degree on what you just said in your last post.  Also, since you said, "I know that offends you" this tells me that you will say whatever you want and don't care if it offends me.  I am an honest straight shooter like you, but I have made progress in stating my views without offending people.  Ron17, pokey77, and even rbach have made valid points about this and have helped me.  However, your continued antagonistic words to me don't help my communications to you and do put me on the defense with you.  That is one of my weak points, true, but I have a higher opinion of those people than you on this subject.  

You are entitled to think, "I’m not going to lie and pretend differently about how I view your audio assessments or the audio notions you promote."  The best thing to do is to keep these thoughts in your head, off this thread, and be respectful of me publicly here.  But your next statement is good--"And I am not claiming to be any sort of expert and it’s only one person’s opinion."  Just don't be the unelected censor of what you think Jay or anyone else wants to hear and avoid.  Moderators do that, and they are mainly on the lookout for offensive remarks.

As for the audio fringe, most any of the a-philes here would be judged by the mainstream mid-fi and low-fi community to be on the fringe.  That's axiomatic, a statement of fact by the number of highenders vs lowenders.   No a-phile here is ashamed of being in the fringe of the mainstream world, and they rightly embrace it.  But the defining characteristic of audiophiles is not how much money they spend, but their care and attention to subtleties and SOTA innovation.  It just so happens that innovators in any field have been on the fringe.  They do things that the mainstream thought were nuts, in part because the mainstream wanted to protect their status quo and was envious that the innovator got there first.  There is some old wisdom about new things--first they are denied, then ridiculed, then grudgingly accepted as possibly true, then embraced as everyone wants to cash in or benefit from what's new and better.  Actually, I was like that with early digital.  My analog setup was better and digital was lousy.  Almost 40 years later, I now embrace digital sound for its precision, even if sometimes there are unnatural digital artifacts.  Things are getting better and better.

I hope you get better and better.
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